Sparta-Morgan Relations

[Googlie]

Originally posted by Maniac
Hmm, I posted a quick reply in the embassy since the turn is now with the Morganites. Better give them an update. My message can still be edited of course.

I think your Embassy post is just fine

[Modo44]

The simple question, rephrased: Can Yang kill us, if left alone for a while?

It seems to me, this AI is just about big enough, to be more than just a punching bag between humans. Instead, he might be a tool. Is it too late to think that way? Is it possible that his inevitable losses (concerning unit count) will make him talk to us? After all, he's in position to seriously cripple the Gaians and Morgan, even if they win the wars in the end (if they win...). The question (the same one) is, can we afford to let him do the job (for us, so to speak), or can we not? I don't know enough about our situation, that's why I ask you.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Googlie
I'm thinking (as I build the Morgan part of our sim) that they're researching Soc Psych, not to help us leapfrog, but rather as they've reached the boundaries of their horizontal expansion and are about to switch to vertical.

Let's hope they stop expanding.
Though I fear the reason they chose SocPsych might be completely different:
Playing around with the tech choice simulator, I saw that after AdapEcon the choices they would have had, were:

• Doctrine: Initiative
• Social Psych
• Polymorphic Software
• Field Modulation

Hardly great options, so they might have asked themselves "What tech sucks least?", instead of "What tech is most useful for us?" and chosen SocPsych.

On the bright side this does mean that this trade could could be more important to them than we thought: If we don't give them SocPsych, they won't be able to switch research to a more valuable tech. And they don't have the option either to switch research (and lose half their research points), or they'd only be able to select an even worse tech.

[Maniac]

Response from jtsisyoda:

"What about HEC?"

I felt tempted to reply: "What about it?"

[Googlie]

How about (naively):

HEC isn't on the Int Int / Planetary Economics beeline - it's on the Fossils / Air Power line

[Googlie]

rather than let them stew, I posted a reply:

Reply to : jtsisyoda

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What about HEC?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not being on the Intellectual Integrity chain, we didn't see it as relevant (it's on the Synthetic Fossil Fuels - - Doctrine: Air Power chain)

However we do have that technology. Is the Corporation interested in obtaining it?

Lt Colonel Googlie

[Maniac]

How about posting a reply like this in the "Where do we go from here? - After the Spartan Probe" thread in the embassy? Should it be made to sound less unfriendly, or is it ok somewhat like this?


As the Corporation has indicated they do not consider infiltrating a faction an acceptable action during a treaty, as we have compensated the Corporation for the loss of the attorney, yet since the Corporation has two Gator Boats located in the ocean we share, one of which is hugging our coasts, the Junta feels we are entitled to ask you the following questions:

How will we be given assurances that future unfriendly acts will not be conducted against the Federation?

How can we continue an association with the Corporation unless we have clear promises from the Corporation that no Morganic units will approach our borders (to be within striking or infiltration distance of our cites or territory) without prior notice to the Junta? How can we continue association with the Corporation without a clear promise from the Corporation that no hostile military actions be taken agains the Federatio?. How can we continue any association with the Corporation without a clear promise from the Corporation that no probe actions be carried out that are directed against or are detrimental to the Federation?

In light of these developments, we would like to request you to withdraw your Gator Boats back to your side of the ocean, and not to send any probes in our direction in the future, unless with prior permission.

The Federation would like to inform you that any Morganic ships in violation of this request will be treated as declared under the Modo Doctrine, which should soon be announced publically in the next Phalanx.

Lt-Colonel Pedro 'Maniac' Riveira
Commanding Officer of the Spartan Kel

[Snoddasmannen]

I don't think they'll be able to infiltrate, they're just exploring (all our bases are guarded by probe teams). But nonetheless, how about assuring them that a hostile probe action would cost the Corporation much more than the price of the destroyed crypteia?

Yes, nothing like imposing some bully-like double standards. But we're walking all over the other human teams anyway so why not make sure they all know it

[Googlie]

Originally posted by Snoddasmannen
Yes, nothing like imposing some bully-like double standards. But we're walking all over the other human teams anyway so why not make sure they all know it

I was thinking that the other evening. We've pretty much bullied our way to where we are right now.

We bullied the Gaians for the right to trade Ind Auto to Lal - and got Ethical Calculus in the trade - and now are using that as a bully point to get the CDF

We bullied the Angels for Doc Loyalty and the Command Nexus - giving up Doc Flex that they and the Gaians were panting for

We bullied Morgan over the probe deal (and in spite of the Mr Moneypenny accord, we dumped him as soon as it became inconvenient)

All in all, sitting polishing our gunbarrels has some merit to it, no?

[Googlie]

Originally posted by Maniac
How about posting a reply like this in the "Where do we go from here? - After the Spartan Probe" thread in the embassy? Should it be made to sound less unfriendly, or is it ok somewhat like this? .................................................. ..blah blah ........................................... any Morganic ships in violation of not adhering to this request will be treated as declared under considered in violation of the Modo Doctrine .............. etc

Lt-Colonel Pedro 'Maniac' Riveira
Commanding Officer of the Spartan Kel

[Maniac]

Posted with your edit.

Originally posted by Googlie
We bullied the Gaians for the right to trade Ind Auto to Lal - and got Ethical Calculus in the trade - and now are using that as a bully point to get the CDF

I had forgotten about that.

[Maniac]

jtsisyoda:

Yes.
Just thinking out loud, an unofficial idea... If you sent Soc Psych and HEC, maybe we could send SFF in the next 5(?) years. I don't know if it would be a tech choice or not

Piece of info I noticed but I forgot to mention until now: Our pact brother Lal is currently researching Synthetic Fossils Fuels, and will finish research somewhere in the next five to ten years IIRC. As long as we stay pacted, I guess we should be able to trade the tech with Lal.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Modo44
The simple question, rephrased: Can Yang kill us, if left alone for a while?

It seems to me, this AI is just about big enough, to be more than just a punching bag between humans. Instead, he might be a tool. Is it too late to think that way? Is it possible that his inevitable losses (concerning unit count) will make him talk to us? After all, he's in position to seriously cripple the Gaians and Morgan, even if they win the wars in the end (if they win...). The question (the same one) is, can we afford to let him do the job (for us, so to speak), or can we not? I don't know enough about our situation, that's why I ask you.

I don't know. The ACDG was set up without any inbuilt AI preferences or aversions towards certain human factions, so in theory everything should be possible as long as we're creative enough.
Getting on a good page with Yang might of course require us to run Police State. Two questions/problems here are of course: 1) Is Police State currently the most beneficial government for us? 2) We can't know for sure whether us going Police State would please Yang sufficiently to eg pact and do whatever we want.

[Modo44]

I don't know about economy choices, because I still don't have SMAX to check for myself. I'm used to Police State, because of playing the Hive all the time (it basically stays selected throughout the game), but it looks pretty dangerous for other factions. The efficiency hit might be too big for us to handle, given the already slow production.

For now, I think we should concentrate on making an everlasting impression on Zak. After that is done, we can consider less effective economy settings, to favor our diplomacy.

Originally posted by Googlie
All in all, sitting polishing our gunbarrels has some merit to it, no?

Yes, especially if you make sure everyone watches. Even more so, if you fire that gun once in a while, like we just did.

/me bursts out in diabolic laughter *

[Snoddasmannen]

For what it's worth, the Morgans haven't yet notified us if the Uni have completed their synthmetal sentinel yet. Would there be much worth in denying us this information? Seems like they probably just missed our request.

jtsisyoda did congratulate us on our conquest however, so we have no option other than to assume our invasion is officially sanctioned by the Morgans

posted by jtsisyoda in the virtual embassy
Congratulations on your double whammy acquisition of economic acumen