Sparta-Morgan Relations

[Kassiopeia]

Yeah, it appears that the Morganites have not met the Gaians yet, which of course puts everything on its head as far as diplomacy is concerned. The Morganites are now pristine territory where we can pull of any nefarious scheme we desire! Like brokering them techs we "acquire" from other sources or buying them for cheap and selling them for a tidy profit.

Why they have decided that the Angels and Gaians are in cahoots, is beyond me.

[Googlie]

Originally posted by KrysiasKrusader
I was never under the impression that the Morganites and Gaians had met. And, it was clear to me that we are the first to have met them. I was sure the rest of you saw things the same way. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

I for one thought that they had met (as in the screen that was inadvertently left open, the Gaians commlink was missing)

That's why I was surmising that the Gaians were stalling on the Angels commlink sale - to try and sell it to Morgan before we could

That's why I was wondering if the Gaians had gotten Ind Auto from Morgan

That's why we wanted an onward-trading embargo on GS - to stop Gaia immediately saelling to Morgan
and so on

[Googlie]

So (elsewhere) Maniac makes a good point:

We should withold giving Mroran's commlink to the Gaians and vice versa so long as possible, to maximize our "honest broker" opportunities.

And if the Gaians do put the Angels' commlink on the table for 25 ec's, we should snap it up

We shouldn't then (yet) sell the Angels commlink to Morgan

We should sell GS to Morgan and to the Angels

We should sell Flex to the Gaians and the Angels

We should probe-rape the University and sell whatever we can to whomsoever

We might have, say, ten years of a trading monopoly, so let's maximize our opportunities

(and if we do agree to a Morgan "observer" on the SCC Hunter, let's make sure it goes nowhere near gaian territory)

[Googlie]

Originally posted by Kassiopeia
What meeting room am I reading? Either I've gotten a severe case of dyslexia, have misunderstood something, or failed to notice something, the Morganites are proposing that we get half of the extra trade, as IIRC was the intention, and they just want the maps. I don't see them offering *anything* in return for the maps. Nor am I reading anywhere that they're specifically touting it as a factional advantage per se. Of course,

On the contrary, I think they are linking the 2, and that we get 1/2 the surplus income in exchange for us giving them explaration data.

Here, again is what they posted in the Embassy (my bold italics):

Posted by the Morganites in the Embassy

Please understand that we do not get that additional commerce for free. Because of the Free Market, which helps make that income, we have problems with drones and exploring the world

Please consider:

1.
In recognition of the special commerce advantage, Sparta gets one half of the special Morgan commerce bonus.
For example: If in year 2130 Morgan gets 16 in commerce with Sparta and Sparta gets 10 in commerce with Morgan, then in year 2131 Morgan sends 3 ECs to Sparta so that both Morgan and Sparta get the same amount of commerce income from each other.

2.
In recognition of the Spartan exploration advantage, Morgan would like to place an observer on the naval craft that met us.
For example: We would like screenshots of the naval craft that is now off our coast. As your foil moves we would like to see what it finds. At the end of each turn Sparta would post a screenshot of what the foil sees. If that particular craft ceased to explore, then screenshots from a suitable replacement would be provided.

So I think that they are inextricably linked - and he does make a valid point. (Granted, though, that they could explore with transports or with probefoils, although both are a bit defenseless against IoD's until they get trance)

Our counter, of course, (in addition to the above, and as already said elsewhere) is that without the Treaty there is no additional commerce income for them, so if they want exploration data as well, then perhaps the profit-sharing split should be 60:40 in our favor

(But you have to admire their brashness. It's a great request - the exploration data - 'cos it really is hard to counter. They could drop Free Market then wouldn't have the drone problems when their military ships leave port, but there would be no "profits" to share with us)

The turn will imminently zip thru the Angels and be in Morgan hands, so we need to get the dialogue going with them on this and all the other isseus that are on the table

G.

[Googlie]

Originally posted by Googlie
And if the Gaians do put the Angels' commlink on the table for 25 ec's, we should snap it up

Illuminatus has posted in our Gaian Embassy that the Angels' commlink is indeed on offer for us in the 2142 turn (whether pre-accepted for 25 ec's or not, he didn't say)

Based on prior discussions, I will accept the offer for 25 ec's when I open the turn, and if asking more, I will come to the junta for instructions

[KrysiasKrusader]

Another thing to keep in mind; If they run just WEALTH, they get +1 energy per square - which is the real biggie concerning energy output. By running FREE MARKET, they gain, in addition to the above, +1 COMMERCE. The second is not really that important unless you can take advantage of it by treaties or pacts. Hence, I don't buy their "reason". I personally just took it as a ploy on their part to try and wrangle something extra. Might work on people with less experience playing Morgan, but anybody who knows otherwise, won't be fooled...

EDIT:

Googlie beat me in posting (laugh). Look at the post above last for reference to what I'm saying here.

[Googlie]

But it's by running Free Market that causes them to be explorationally-challenged by the drones that appear when units are away from their base.

So their position is, if we want to share in the commerce they get from their running FM, then we should contribute something (information) to offset the penalties they get from running FM

The "debater" in me says they have a valid argument (and quite innovative too - it'd be worth it just to have that agreement go down in SMAC/X annals)

I'm in favour, with the restriction that we decide where Hunter goes, and that if it gets destroyed, or otherwise ceases to explore (eg heals from damage, or enters our port) there's no automatic transfer to another vessel (but of course we would then forfeit our right to the profit sharing)

G.

[KrysiasKrusader]

I'm in agreement with the proposed deal.
(Didn't I say so already...?)

*scrolling back through some posts...*

(No, looks like I didn't give an opinion on this yet.)

With getting 1/2 of the commerce difference in energy credits (one turn later), that's more than I would have expected.
If we explore the Morganite coastline, they won't be getting that much valuable data.


I've worked out wierd deals with people in the past:
- Disclosure of what I recieved from unity pod pops.
- Diplomatic isolation of individual factions.
- Sending my formers in their territory and doing terraforming.
- Disbanding all my probes (!!!).
- Staying in FREE MARKET for the rest of the game.

Lot's of wierd stuff. That's what makes multi-playing so interesting.

[Kassiopeia]

I'm fine with the exploration proposal, but I will emphasise to them that *we* will tell the ship where it will go.

[Googlie]

I'm thinking, if the Hunter and the Pegasus do link up for some pod popping it'll really gall them if we give a screenie of the pod, then say "we popped it and got 200 ec's etc etc" (even if we didn't)

(And as an aside, if we pop a pod and get a Hunter clone, will that mean that the Morgan Observer gets cloned too?)



And I see that the turn is now with Morgan - can we expect to see the airwaves heating up now with commlink activity?

[Kassiopeia]

Hope so! I'm composing a message now.

[Googlie]

They haven't even downloaded their turn yet

[Kassiopeia]

Odd to see such procrastination from the largest faction in the game. Peculiar.

[KrysiasKrusader]

The Gaians are larger (27 members. mindboil being their latest.)

[Googlie]

I can post this to the Embassy site (as an indication of the type of screenies they will periodically receive as the SCC Hunter circumnavigates Chiron (yeah, right). It's what lies just outside thier view from their coastal base

Note that cf the real map I have moved the "Buster Ocean" nametag closer to Morgan - htey will doubtless think that we are on their doorstep (as to name a landmark on the real map the feature must be closer to us than any other faction). Just messin' with their minds