Sparta-Gaian relations

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Googlie
And while we don't have Social Psych (that's prolly one that we'll filch from Zak next turn) we can perhaps offer them Secrets (which for them leads them to Green economics - a biggie) in lieu of paying them the 50 ec's

Junta thoughts?

Do you think they wouldn't be willing to pay more than 50c for that tech?

[Googlie]

Prolly, but I'm thinking we'll piss them off if we ask them for more ec's than we were prepared to give them for the right to get SoTHB (and Eth Calc) in the first place

Essentially for them it's an Ind Auto for Secrets trade, with us as the middlemen getting Secrets too, with (to us only) EthCalc thrown in as a bonus

We don't want to be seen as being too greedy, now, do we?

[Kassiopeia]

They spotted it while it was up for nary five minutes? Colour me suspicious. Could they possible be trying to bluff?

[Googlie]

Unless they think that we got Gene Splicing from the AI after getting from them Soc Psych (a prereq for ethical calculus) and EthCalc itself (in turn, a prereq for GS)

[Googlie]

OK - how about this as a reply (by Kassi) to Illuminatus' recent post in the Embassy:

Posted by Illuminatus in the Embassy
May we have the confirmation that is was Lal who asked the commlink?

Yes, it was Lal we were holding open yesterday pending the decison by your goodselves

Also, would you part for his frequency for 25 credits?

While we will be pleased to do so eventually, at this time we are seeking the return on our investment to concentrate on Doctrine Flexibility at the expense of Industrial Automation. We are (presumably) behind yourselves, the Angels and Morgan in the building and deployment of crawlers, so the lucrative "middleman" role between yourselves - and the Angels - with the AI regarding tech trades is one that we would like to maintain at least for the next few turns

One another thing - it is likely you got Ethical Calculus or Social Psych from Lal. If this is the case, we would be interested in negotiating a trade with you for data on any or both of these technologies

We are indeed in the possession of Ethical Calculus, but as it represents a key component of our strategy execution we are reluctant to trade it at this time.

We are not yet in possession of Social Psych (although our agents about to call again on the good professor might return next year with the blueprints !!), but we do possess Secrets of the Human Brain which we would be willing to trade to you for an equivalent technology

[Kassiopeia]

Looks OK to me.

[Googlie]

back to the 50 ec's versus gifting a tech

I suppose we could ask for a tech (prolly biogenetics) in exchange for Secrets

That would have the same effect as buying Biogen for 50 ec's, which isn't a bad deal considering Zak is asking 100 ec's

(Or we could offer Social Psych if that indeed is what we steal from the Uni next turn) - and if we hold to our "Junta professed tenet" then we wouodn't trade a level 2 (Secrets) straight up for a level 1 (Biogenetics), so it would be a Soc Psych for Biogenetics trade.

Not that we need buiogen, but every early tech we eliminate from the tech choices we get offered makes it more likely that we'll see the 2 we want appear - Doc Init, for the MCC and Int Int, for the CDF (but we need Doc Loyalty, which Yang won't trade, so maybe after this round of podpopping a trannie needs to swing by and drop off a couple of probes - or maybe we can get it from the Gaians, if they've researched it or if they can steal it from Yang)

[Googlie]

Originally posted by Kassiopeia
Looks OK to me.

I'd go ahead and post it then

[Kassiopeia]

Yeh, done.

[Googlie]

Saw that

(And I'm ok with leaving out the "part of our strategy execution" bit - you're right, no need to tell them everything, is there?)

[Maniac]

Prolly, but I'm thinking we'll piss them off if we ask them for more ec's than we were prepared to give them for the right to get SoTHB (and Eth Calc) in the first place

Essentially for them it's an Ind Auto for Secrets trade, with us as the middlemen getting Secrets too, with (to us only) EthCalc thrown in as a bonus

We don't want to be seen as being too greedy, now, do we?

You have a point. As a true Spartan in heart and mind, I tend to think of diplomacy in terms of 'power politics' and 'law of the strongest' instead of 'building confidence' etcetera, being inexperienced in diplomacy not always keeping in mind that might piss off our future minions.

Originally posted by Googlie
back to the 50 ec's versus gifting a tech (prolly biogenetics)

AFAIK we could steal Biogenetics from Zakharov next year. So I guess the question is: what's worth most to us: 50 credits, or the ensurance that our probe team won't get caught? So I guess the decisive factor to answer this question would be: what's the chance our probe would be caught after stealing a tech?

[Googlie]

In the sim I ran (didn't keep it, unfortunately) I infiltrated with the first probe - and he returned safely, and stoole with the second (was actually ethical calculus) and he too returned safely

And all Zak did was the "naughty naughty" speech

And he's friendlier now that we've executed a trade with him (plus we owe him money - I don't know if the game engine counts that as a factor whether an AI declares vendetta or not - the lost income, I mean)

So I think we're prolly safe to infiltrate and safe to steal, at least this first time (but maybe, since we are a few turns away from launching an invasion, we should infiltrate, then reassess. if, eg, he's 2 turns away from ecol Eng, then we should wait and steal it the turn he gets it, rather than be fobbed off with a level-1 tech the first chance we get

[Googlie]

Posted in the Embassy by Illuminatus
Ethical Calculus is one of our priorities, and if you are willing to trade it, we can provide you with Doctrine Flexibility and Social Psych before this decade ends, allowing you to pursue other goals

So they are somewhat peeved to be denied Ethical Calculus, and are even prepared to offer us Social Psych and Doctrine Flexibility in exchange

So my "covert ops nose" tells me that they are currently researching Doc Flex and will have it before 2149

Ethical Calculus is one of our priorities

If it is to enable them to build creches, run Dem and pop-boom, then I wouldn't object to trading it to them only for Doc Loyalty (which would mean their trying to extract it from Yang thru probe efforts - they can as they are in vendetta ..... we can't as it would lead to vendetta which we don't want right now. They can't yet have Doc Loyalty as we only traded Doc Mobility to them last turn - they'd be researching that and switched to Doc Flex, I bet)

But if we do ever get to the stage of trading it to them, it must be on the condition that they don't build the CDF

May we remind you that it was Gaian Union which provided Industrial Automation, a very important technology, to Spartan Federation, without reluctance?

Of course - who'd be reluctant to get Gene Splicing in exchange for ind Auto

We do not pressure you to do it immediately, but we would appreciate if you are willing to do it in near future

(If we don't go with the Doc Loyalty suggestion, then how about :

As soon as we have completed the Citizens' Defense Force, the embargo on trading Ethical Calculus will be removed

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Googlie
So they are somewhat peeved to be denied Ethical Calculus, and are even prepared to offer us Social Psych and Doctrine Flexibility in exchange

Shall we (now or perhaps in a few years) offer them Doctrine: Flexibility in exchange for say 150 credits? Of course it would bring them more rapidly towards D:AP, but we could very well use those credits for our war effort or general economic progress.

[Googlie]

I was tempted to say in the embassy -Military Affairs category, regarding the logjam with the Hive units, their mindworm and R-112, something along the lines of:

......... move east to the Hive coast and be picked up by one of our Cruiser Transports ..........

just to sew some more disinformation