Game Discussion, Turn 2121 - 2140

[Googlie]

and we can repay it anytime - so if the 2 per is a drag on our ec production, but we pop a pos with ec's we can always repay him to clear the debt

[Zeiter]

If we repay early, do we still have to repay the whole 200 ECs?

Edit: Actually, since we'll we probing him and getting into a war with him pretty soon anyway, why not let the payments drag out as long as possible? If we probe him in 20 years and we get into a war, we'll have only payed back 40 ECs, netting us a nice profit of 25 ECs.

[Googlie]

Hmm - it'd be 200 less the 2 per year for the number of years elapsed

(And I like your thinking !!!)

[Jamski]

Wheeeee! Flying by HQ to see how things are progressing
/me salutes*
I always borrow cash from the AI, especially if they're likely to be going to vendetta with me in the future (Cash from Yang NEVER gets paid back in full, he's always SO eager to go to war with me.

Thinking sideways a bit - a TRANSPORT foil instead of a second gun foil would be a better investment, used for getting colony pods down that coastline faster to settle near the Hive. It will save masses of turn advantage to be able to get our CPs into place a few turns faster, and then the transport can be used for either pod-popping (can carry an AA) or starting a splinter-colony on the nearest small island.

-Jam

[Zeiter]

/me salutes Jamski.

Hey, that's something I never considered - using transport foils to ferry CPs to future base sites. That could come in handy if we want to plant a base near the fungal pass. It's quite a way on land, but by sea it would take just a few turns.

[Maniac]

I would also be in favour of a transport foil. We could use it to transport two probe teams to a neighbouring faction (eg the Hive) to infiltrate/steal tech. That way we wouldn't have to build the rather expensive (55 mins) probe skimships. They would take ages to build in our 2-3 mineral production coastal base Gythium Harbour. With a trannie-probe team combination we could build the probe teams in more productive inland bases.

Btw, what would you think of switching GH production to a sea colony pod before a pod popping? That would basically give us a colony pod and a pressure dome in one (free for sea bases), instead of only a pressure dome.

Thirdly, I just got contacted for a vacation job to the end of August, so I don't know if I'll be available to play the turns fast enough. Therefore I'd like to resign as turnplayer. 't Was an honour to be your CO.

[Googlie]

/me salutes Major Jamski*

Originally posted by Jamski
a TRANSPORT foil instead of a second gun foil would be a better investment

I'd kinda laid off the trasport foil for the time being in the hopes that Invincible would pop one from a pod (albeit they are only 2 movement points)

I still think that a probe foil is a better investment than a trannie + team. The latter has to sit around the nearest base after a successful operation waiting for the trannie to return to pick him up and ferry him off again.

Plus, if using a foil's first movement point, and always entering from the oceanward side, foils can also be used to pop pods - just don't enter a fungus podaquare - as it can always run away from IoD's

(And if you run a scenario, the incidence of popping cash is higher than with a trannie - which can't run as far either - as some of the other options are not available for the game mechanics (a rover, an AA, etc - just like with Invincible)

Originally posted by Maniac
Btw, what would you think of switching GH production to a sea colony pod before a pod popping? That would basically give us a colony pod and a pressure dome in one (free for sea bases), instead of only a pressure dome

I don't think the game mechanics would give a pod completion for a base with just 1 population - I think the algorithm looks at it and then discards that option, "rolling the dice" again.

(And on the off chance it did, are you suggesting that we disband GH and then build again just offshore?)

Thirdly, I just got contacted for a vacation job to the end of August, so I don't know if I'll be available to play the turns fast enough. Therefore I'd like to resign as turnplayer. 't Was an honour to be your CO

I can assume the duties until I leave for Scotland/Ireland on Aug 22nd, but after that - even assuming I take my laptop with me - my internet visits will be sporadic at best

[Maniac]

Great idea for the loan.

Originally posted by Googlie
I'd kinda laid off the trasport foil for the time being in the hopes that Invincible would pop one from a pod (albeit they are only 2 movement points)

With 300 sea pod poppings (those tests a while ago) I only got three unity foils though. And all three were popped by a transport foil. So the chance we could get one this way seems rather small unfortunately.

I still think that a probe foil is a better investment than a trannie + team. The latter has to sit around the nearest base after a successful operation waiting for the trannie to return to pick him up and ferry him off again.

True I hadn't considered that. Though there are other differences too. I'll try to make a list, comparing two probe skimships against a transport filled with two probe teams.

Two probe skimship:

• They have one extra movement point.
• They can do two different jobs.
• They can immediately start on a new mission again after a succesful operation.

Other advantages I missed?

Taskforce of a transport filled with two probe teams:

• The taskforce as a whole is one mineral row cheaper to produce compared to two probe skimships.
• Production of the taskforce can be divided over multiple bases, also our more productive inland bases like SC2 (=> hardened probe teams!!) or the Crater bases. Because our current and future port bases probably won't be producing more than 2 or 3 minerals for a long while, this means the whole taskforce could be completed a decade before the first probe skimship could be finished.
• The transport can also serve other duties: pod popping (with a good chance for alien artifacts!), transport of colony pods or troops...
• The probe teams can also probe bases one square away from the sea.
• The probe teams can pod coastal land unity pods, and hop immediately back on the transport.
• If a probe is captured during a mission, or loses a probe battle, only three instead of five mineral rows are lost.

That's all I can think of right now.

Plus, if using a foil's first movement point, and always entering from the oceanward side, foils can also be used to pop pods - just don't enter a fungus podaquare - as it can always run away from IoD's

Does the same not count for transports?

(And if you run a scenario, the incidence of popping cash is higher than with a trannie - which can't run as far either - as some of the other options are not available for the game mechanics (a rover, an AA, etc - just like with Invincible)

AFAIK the probability of getting a rover is rather low though. (For what it's worth, I got none on 150 tests.) But the probability of getting alien artifacts is rather high with a transport: one chance or eight or so if I may believe my tests. Is this not a good instead of a bad thing? We already have an Ogre, so with one artifact, we'd already have half a secret project potentially ready. IMHO an artifact is the best pod pop result one can get this early with the exception of 200 credits (not possible yet right now AFAIK) or an Ogre.

I don't think the game mechanics would give a pod completion for a base with just 1 population - I think the algorithm looks at it and then discards that option, "rolling the dice" again.

Hmm, I did some tests and I couldn't get any materials pod to complete a CP while at size 1. You seem to be correct. So as you say a pressure dome seems indeed the best option. What would you think of aiming for a sea colony pod though after GH has grown to size 2 in 2 turns?

I can assume the duties until I leave for Scotland/Ireland on Aug 22nd, but after that - even assuming I take my laptop with me - my internet visits will be sporadic at best

Ah thanks. Btw, after August 22, do you mean your internet visits will become sporadic for always , or for a limited period?

[Zeiter]

Another advantage of a probe foil is that, if we meet another ship, and if we have enough ECs, we can mind control away that unit.

Yet another advantage is that probe foils can attack land probes on the coast and in coastal bases, but not vice-versa.

Although these considerations may not have any relevance at this point in the game.

I wonder, what really are the chances that we'll be popping many pods with our probe foils? Most likely, they'll be travelling over terrain that has already been scouted. And we won't be taking many detours with them, as we'll want them to arrive at their destination as soon as possible.

I'm kind of leaning towards the transport/land probes idea, but I'm not really sure at this point.

[Googlie]

Originally posted by Maniac
And all three were popped by a transport foil. So the chance we could get one this way seems rather small unfortunately.

Come to think of it, I can remember many times popping a trannie with a trannie, but can't recall too many instances of popping a trannie with a foil - even as the Pirates

Production of the taskforce can be divided over multiple bases, also our more productive inland bases like SC2 (=> hardened probe teams!!) or the Crater bases. Because our current and future port bases probably won't be producing more than 2 or 3 minerals for a long while, this means the whole taskforce could be completed a decade before the first probe skimship could be finished.

And that's prolly the killer argument. Trannies, produced at a coastal base, can multutask. Plus, probes, produced in more minerals-rich inland bases, can be churned out as infantry and rover probes (and +2 morale, as you say, from SC2)

The probe teams can also probe bases one square away from the sea.

And while the AI doesn't do this much, wily human players are certainly alert to the danger of costal bases

Does the same not count for transports?

Yes, but with 1 less movement point they can't put as much space between them and the threat

But the probability of getting alien artifacts is rather high with a transport: one chance or eight or so if I may believe my tests. Is this not a good instead of a bad thing? We already have an Ogre, so with one artifact, we'd already have half a secret project potentially ready. IMHO an artifact is the best pod pop result one can get this early with the exception of 200 credits (not possible yet right now AFAIK) or an Ogre.

Agreed

What would you think of aiming for a sea colony pod though after GH has grown to size 2 in 2 turns?

I'd agree with that

.....internet visits will become sporadic for a limited period?

Just for the five weeks I'll be in the UK & Ireland (I return Sept 24th)

G.

[Dis]

transport sounds good to me. eventually we may need them for our attack plans.

[Googlie]

So 2124 turn orders would be?: (that ? is asking for approval/confirmation)

Step 1

• Switch production at Harbour to a Pressure Dome
• pop the seapod with the foil
• if a facs completion - great - go to Step 2
• if 50 (or more - but not 100) ec's, then call Yang and ask for that 65 ec loan (obviously, if we pop 100, we have enough to buy outright) - go to step 3

Step 2

• If no ec's in podpop, then sell the NN for 40 ec's and call Yang and ask for loan of 65 ec's, then go to step 3

Step 3

• buy Applied Physics from Yang for 100 ec's(he then hangs up)
• switch production at Harbour to a Pressure Dome
• pop the land pod with Chiron Knights
• if a monolith (heals and upgrades CK), commlink or tech, great, like wise OK if a facilities completion
• If not the latter, then change production to a transport foil, ready to load up on probe teams after we build them following getting Planetary Networks the turn after

[Zeiter]

That all sounds great.

And then maybe the following turn, if we end up not having to get a loan from Yang for applied physics, we can get the loan anyway, and use it to get the Data Angels and Morganic comm frequencies.

[Maniac]

Sounds great!

Btw, IIRC SC2 will build a scout patrol next turn. If we'd move it to GH and rehome to that base, we can prevent SC2 from having to pay support costs.

[Googlie]

It sure would be nice to pop 100 ec's - that'd solve all our problems (or even 50, though I am loth to sell that Network Node)

And a great idea to home the SC2 scout at GH

Longer term - do we want to switch to Planned when we get Plan Nets? Our growth would go to +2, our efficiency takes a -2 hit, but we remove our -1 Industry penalty

Oh, and I loaded the simulator with an Applied Physics breakthru, then a Planetary Networks one. our next choice of techs is:

• Nonlinear Mathematics
• Industrial Base
• Social Psych
• Progenitor Psych

I'm assuming we all agree to go for Nonlinear Math?