Game Discussion, Turn 2121 - 2140

[Zeiter]

I also believe we need to change the sliders back to...50/50, was it?

Hmmm, commlink or planned...we need a breakdown of the pros and cons for each one.

Commlink (Morganites or Data Angels):
Pros:
*We could possibly trade for some tech
*We could possibly form an alliance
*We could pull the ol' Yang switcheroo we've been discussing.
*There may be further opportunities that we can't foresee at this point

Cons:
*Talks may lead nowhere, or even deteriorate, depending on how predisposed each team is to us.
*They would gain the chance to pull the ol' Yang switcheroo on us (where they get Yang to attack us. Somewhat unlikely, though, IMO)

Switching to Planned:
Pros:
*Far better growth, which the early game is all about, IMO.
*Our industry gets back to par with the others. We'll no longer have to count on pod-popped ECs to rush our things to keep up with the other's production.

Cons:
*Efficiency takes a hit, so this means:
***Less labs/turn (Could we check and see exactly how many less labs/turn we'd get using the simulator?)
***Less ECs/turn (Ditto)
***More b-drones as we expand in number of bases
*We only get to change it once (for a while, anyway) so if we decide we don't like planned after switching to it, we're somewhat stuck with it until we can accumulate 40 ECs that we don't mind spending on an SE change

I guess the big questions are:
*How long will it be before we can contact the others on our own?
*Might the Data Angels or Morganites buy our commlink from Yang themselves?

Another thing to consider is that 25 ECs isn't too hard to accumulate, so even if we don't get the other commlinks right now, we could easily be able to get them a few more years down the road. In fact, Yang might "politely decline to talk" or whatever for a few years anyway.

Personally, I'm leaning towards using those ECs to switch to planned right now.

Great played turn! Now we have, what, 2 commando rovers and 2 veterans?

[Zeiter]

Originally posted by Primus Pilus
btw, i saw that my icon changed from Settler to Chieftan. Cool. i don't know if King or Emperor is fitting for me, too Noble. Lord Spear would be nice when I earn it

Yep, as you post, you gain ranks. I'm not sure what all of the levels are, but I think 100 posts gets you warlord status, 300 posts for Prince (which I am ), 1000 posts for King?, 3000 for Emperor?, and 10000 for Deity. I don't know if there is a "Lord" rank or not. Although, can't you edit your rank when you reach a certain point? Like how Honghu edited hers to "Princess"?

Anyway, sorry if this seems like spam in this discussion thread.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Zeiter
*We could possibly form an alliance

Something to keep in mind: The Angels and Morganites would have more use of an alliance than us. The Morganites would most likely get commerce income while we wouldn't yet, and the Angels could get free techs if they also infiltrated/pacted some other factions with similar techs as us.

***Less labs/turn (Could we check and see exactly how many less labs/turn we'd get using the simulator?)
***Less ECs/turn (Ditto)

According to my last updated simulator (MY 2122) SC3 would lose yet another energy (for a total of 2 out of 4 energy lost).

***More b-drones as we expand in number of bases

Fortunately not. The bureaucracy limit doesn't decrease anymore when you go lower than 0 Efficiency SE. So both at -2 and 0 Eff SE our limit would be six bases.

*Might the Data Angels or Morganites buy our commlink from Yang themselves?

To maximize the chance of that happening, I hope the next Phalanx with your and Googlie's Hive article could be published soon.

Personally, I'm leaning towards using those ECs to switch to planned right now.

If a majority decided to go for Planned first, we could wait three turns or so before switching. SC3 and GH will grow in two turns anyway no matter if we switch to Planned next year. And if I calculated correctly the next production items finished (under Planned) would be a CP in SC3 and a former in Olympus/Cloudbase Academy in three turns or so. So if we waited to switch until the turn before production would be finished, we could prevent 2-3 energy being wasted in SC3.

[Googlie]

Originally posted by Maniac
However I don't understand why you think all the labs point would carry over. When you first stated this theory, I did two little tests. Both showed there was no carry-over, even if there wasn't any base producing 50% or more of the labs point. Why would it be different here? Have you experience which lead you to believe so? I would want what you say to be true, but I can't see any evidence supporting your theory (sorry for the scientific wording )

Currently we have 71 labs accumulated, and we need 75. With 30-10-60 settings SC1 will add 3 labs, bringing the total on 74. Then comes SC2, also producing 3 labs. This base labs production brings the total over the required amount, letting us research the tech. However based on my experience, I think we'll loose 2 labs from Santiago Citadel.

I can't find the thread in the archives (but it may have been at ACOL) but I remember MoSe (Mari One) doing an exhaustive test on lab point carryovers, and I'm sure in that thread that one of the Firaxis programmers - Chris Pine, I think it was (maybe Jeffrey Morris) posted to say that the algorithm only lopped off excess lab points from a base that was responsible for 50% or more of total research points

I've believed that to be gospel ever since, and haven't scenario tested it (I can't change the accumulated lab points and haven't run a specific one for a length of time to see what happens)

So this will be a good test. If we lose the excess, then I consent to being cashiered for wanton waste of federation resources, and demoted back to Captain. If the excess carries forward, then I deserve a promotion from Major to Lt Colonel



G.

[Googlie]

Turn will soon be ours again, so some orders are necessary

I'm assuming:

• Select Planetary Networks for the tech to change to in 2125, (which we'll then get) and select Nonlinear Mathematics as our next to-be-researched tech
• Found Olympus Academy, and put a former into production there (rush it for 27 ec's? - see below)
• Move Shinsengumi into Sector Craterwest to garrison there for the next turn's boost to 2 pops
• Continue Rolling Thunder north and north (or northeast) to continue to map our northeastern coastline
• Move R-112 and Chiron Knights southwest and then west, en route to popping that remaining pod west of them
• Move SCC Invincible one tile west (to confirm that there is, indeed, another Hive base there, then backtrack east 3 tiles to open up the unexplored territory of our south coast (ie, see if there is a landbridge south that we currently cannot see)

Some points for discussion:

We'll have 40 ec's next turn - should we change immediately to Planned? (we wouldn't then be able to rush Olympus Academy's former, nor the colony pod at SC3 the turn after). Or put another way, what's the best investment of the 40 ec's?:

• change immediately to Planned
• rush the former at base #5, then the colony pod at SC3
• Call up Yang and get Morgan or Roze's commlink (Yang's face will prolly appear in any event when SCC Invincible calls by his base - see below)
• hoard it to accumulate enough to buy another tech from Yang

When Yang calls:

If he asks us to join him in Vendetta against anyone - what is our response to be?

If he wants to trade techs - for flex or mobility (assuming he doesn't have them), are we interested?

Do we want to buy a commlink from him - if so, whose?

Shall we see if he's interested in a pact?

(I'd like to say - "time is running short as the turn is nigh", but it's Morgan's turn, so I estimate we have at least 36 hours to make up our minds!!)

[Zeiter]

Tech choices are good.

What do we need the former for at Olympus Academy? We don't need any farms, forests, or sensor arrays in the near future. We could use it for roads, but is getting a road network established that urgent?

Most of the unit moves sound good, although I'm not sure about this one:

Move SCC Invincible one tile west (to confirm that there is, indeed, another Hive base there, then backtrack east 3 tiles to open up the unexplored territory of our south coast (ie, see if there is a landbridge south that we currently cannot see)

Do we really need to move it that one tile W? We already know that a Hive base is there. Moving W first would lose us 1 move because of the backtracking. Why not just move E for all four moves?

I'm for switching to planned sometime in the next few turns. Why don't we create a poll for it?

I think the colony pod in SC3 is the more important item to rush than the former at Olympus Academy. Why don't we rush that instead, and get that wonderful crater terrain populated?

Call up Yang and get Morgan or Roze's commlink (Yang's face will prolly appear in any event when SCC Invincible calls by his base - see below)

Why don't we get the 4th Phalanx issue published this turn, and wait a few turns to see if they want to contact us? Then we can decide if we want to fork over the money for contact.

If he asks us to join him in Vendetta against anyone - what is our response to be?

Well, that would be a cheap way to get their commlink. Actually, would it be possible to do that, and then contact the human faction and explain that we are such penny-pinchers that we thought this would be the best way to get their commlink, and tell them that we have no intention to actually fight them, and get the vendetta cancelled? How would that go over in the other camps?

If he wants to trade techs - for flex or mobility (assuming he doesn't have them), are we interested?

I think we should never rule out the possibility completely. I'd be willing to trade either one for something like Ind Econ (which would set us up for making our next research priority IA if we wanted) or, of course, IA. Although its doubtful that he'd have those techs. Any other offers I would refuse.

In general, would it be better to trade with Yang instead of a human faction? Because Yang wouldn't be able to use it as well as a human could. Although there's then the possibility that Yang would trade it or get it probed away, so I guess trading with Yang is a double-edged sword.

Do we want to buy a commlink from him - if so, whose?

If we can afford it, I'd like to get Morgan's, although we should probably wait until we see if the Phalanx stuff has any effect.

Shall we see if he's interested in a pact?

I don't see how that would hurt.

(I'd like to say - "time is running short as the turn is nigh", but it's Morgan's turn, so I estimate we have at least 36 hours to make up our minds!!)

Yep, I guess I might as well kick back with a six pack of xenobrew and watch some Spartan rugby on the holoscreen. I hear Sector Craterwest just drafted a new guy out of the SC3 junior academy with some killer talent - literally. He managed to decapitate four opposing players in one game!

[Zeiter]

Wow, I guess I'll have to cancel that rugby watching. Our turn is up! And in near record time (for the Morgan's anyway. ) So, let's get crackin'! I'm particularly curious if those labs points carried over.

[Googlie]

Just opened the turn

We now have Planetary Networks and are embarked upon Nonlinear Mathematics, with 5 lab points carried over (whatever that means - I'm not sure if we got 1 from getting the tech - wasn't that what Kody said earlier?)

Olympus Academy founded - I put a recon rover into production there - prototype in 4 turns

Moved Invincible east as suggested (only 3 turns) as Zeiter is right, we do know there's a Hive base there, so why waste moves confirming the obvious (plus, it avoids the automatic Yang commlink call to ask why our troops are frightening his chickens ... oh, wrong game!!)

Rolling Thunder moved 1 tile north, and there's a Unity pod just to its east. I've saved the turn there to await instructions whether to pop that pod with the remaining movement point or just ignore for the time being and continue north.

(R-112 and Chiron Knights not yet moved either.

And one other thing - with sliders set at 30/10/60 we currently get 3 ec's per turn and a tech every 11 turns (but -8%labs, -16% economy - pretty irrelevant as we're still within the rounding-up stage with only size 1 bases)

Changing to Planned, with the same settings, still gives 3 ec's and a tech every 11 turns (although the inefficiency changes to -12% labs, -24% economy, the penalty is essentially still nil 'cos of the rounding up)

However, we do go from 0 growth to +2, and from -1 Indutry to 0.

We have exactly 40 ec's in the treasury. (I see there's a thread open, so I won't do anyhting until we get some further opinions.

Here's the current midturn sav

(the full turn moves are 2 pages further down, here

[Googlie]

Originally posted by Zeiter
What do we need the former for at Olympus Academy? We don't need any farms, forests, or sensor arrays in the near future. We could use it for roads, but is getting a road network established that urgent?

Correct - and with the first ten minerals free, it's a headstart on prototyping a 2-1-2 recon rover

Most of the unit moves sound good, although I'm not sure about this one:

Agreed. I moved Invincible 3 tiles east (it has some damage - we should let it rest and repair after it's mapped out our southern costline. Right now it's somewhat vulnerable to an IoD attack)

I'm for switching to planned sometime in the next few turns. Why don't we create a poll for it?

Agreed. Saw the poll (and voted) My druthers is for an immediate (2125) switch

I think the colony pod in SC3 is the more important item to rush than the former (or protoype recon rover) at Olympus Academy. Why don't we rush that instead, and get that wonderful crater terrain populated?

I agree, subject to our still having the ec's to do so (ie, assuming that we don't change this turn to Planned, or that, having done so, we podpop some ec's this turn or next)

edit: with the pop growth to 2 next turn, and the added minerals this brings in, there's no need to rush the CP as it will complete in 2127 anyway uner either Planned or non-Planned settings)

Why don't we get the 4th Phalanx issue published this turn, and wait a few turns to see if they want to contact us? Then we can decide if we want to fork over the money for contact.

Good point

(re: being asked by Yang to join him in a Vendetta)
Well, that would be a cheap way to get their commlink. Actually, would it be possible to do that, and then contact the human faction and explain that we are such penny-pinchers that we thought this would be the best way to get their commlink, and tell them that we have no intention to actually fight them, and get the vendetta cancelled? How would that go over in the other camps?

I think our reputation would take a hit - might even provoke Yang to come after us (although right now he's "obstinate" - it might just shift his mood to "quarrelsome"

(re: tech trading Mobility and Flex)
I think we should never rule out the possibility completely. I'd be willing to trade either one for something like Ind Econ (which would set us up for making our next research priority IA if we wanted) or, of course, IA. Although its doubtful that he'd have those techs. Any other offers I would refuse.

In general, would it be better to trade with Yang instead of a human faction? Because Yang wouldn't be able to use it as well as a human could. Although there's then the possibility that Yang would trade it or get it probed away, so I guess trading with Yang is a double-edged sword.

Well, he hasn't yet traded Applied Physics to anyone else

If we can afford it, I'd like to get Morgan's (commlink), although we should probably wait until we see if the Phalanx stuff has any effect.

(re: yang offering us - or our asking for - a pact)
I don't see how that would hurt.

Moot this turn, so far, as he didn't call - and I haven't (yet) called him. We avoided the automatic communication by not sailing past his hidden base

G.

[Zeiter]

Rolling Thunder moved 1 tile north, and there's a Unity pod just to its east. I've saved the turn there to await instructions whether to pop that pod with the remaining movement point or just ignore for the time being and continue north.

Can the rover disengage if a MW attacks? If so, then I say pop the pod. If not, then I say sidestep it this turn and get it next turn.

I'm not sure if the lab points carried over either. Let's see...last turn, we had 71 out of 75 labs points needed. Our bases were producing 3, 3, 2, and 2 labs points, right? Hmm, it looks like the first 4 labs points were counted, then 2 were dropped, and then the last 4 were counted. If X is a lab point that was dropped and | marks when we discovered plan nets, it would look like:

111,1|XX,11,11

Right? I'm not sure. Either way, it's just a few ECs. Nothing to fret over.

Olympus Academy founded - I put a recon rover into production there - prototype in 4 turns

Do we want to prototype it there? If we prototyped it at SC2, it would be instantly commando, and then with a monolith upgrade, we'd have an elite 2-1-2! Isn't SC2 already building one anyways? So if we had the Olympus Academy laser rover finished first, then we'd have 1 commando 2-1-2 (from SC2 after a monolith upgrade) and 1 veteran 2-1-2 (from OA, after an upgrade). Whereas if the rover was prototyped in SC2 first, we'd have 1 elite and 1 hardened rover. And do we really need another 2-1-2? I thought we were going to build a former in OA. I was generally against rushing the former, but I still think it would be a good idea to build one there. - Edit: Okay, sorry for the confusion. I know I just said I didn't think a former was necessary. I guess it's okay either way. Although, would it be possible to rush the 2-1-2 at SC2 to make it elite?

Do we want to continue exploring with SCC Invincible while it only has 3 moves, or do we want to repair it sometime soon? - Edit: You already answered my question.

Oh, and I agree about switching to planned.

So far the turn seems to be going well.

[Googlie]

Good point about getting the Commando >>> Elite Recon Rover.

But isn't SC2 slated to churn out the probes we need to populate the transport we're building?

Currently, the posted save has:

SC1 - former
SC2 - former
SC3 - Colony Pod
GH - transport
OA - protoype recon rover

Your observations are correct - we don't need (yet) two more formers. One is enough (being produced at SC1)

As it looks like the trannie will complete in 9 to 10 turns (after population increases and Planned), and a recon rover can be prototyped there in 4 turns with a probe team taking 8 thereafter to build at SC2, we can produce a probe team at Olympus Academy in 7, then send down to GH to board the trannie when built.

Thus:

SC1 - former, then scout patrol
SC2 - prototype recon Rover, then probe team
SC3 - Colony Pod, then Colony Pod
GH - transport, then SCC Hunter class laser foil
OA - probe team, then former

How does that sound?

[Googlie]

I ecided to go ahead and pop the Rolling Thunder pod, so moved to that tile

Zak is offshore in a transport!!!

(I don't know what the pod contains, as the Zak dialogue box is obscuring it)

[Zeiter]

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Awesome!

Edit: Okay, I didn't know the current build orders in all the bases. So, we build former in SC1, probe in SC2, CP in SC3, Transport in GH, and 2-1-2 in OA? Sounds good then.

And let me say again: Woohoo! We met Zak!

[Googlie]

Pod revealed a minerals special

[Googlie]

Met Zak - pic removed as this version of the turn was jetisoned - see later