Game Discussion, Turn 2121 - 2140

[Googlie]

HGmm - I'd rather get Ind Auto from Morgan for Gene Splicing (it's on our Doc Int/MCC beeline)

plus - I get a harrumph message from yang when tryong to get Morgan's commlink (right wing loonies, and all that)

but ..................

That IoD that we evaded will likely drop its mindworm cargo off in the fungus at 63:39, so we can hunt it/them down with our elite Chiron Knights, giving us some additional ec's (Remember that CK now has 3 movement points!!)

And those elite rovers are an expensive way to garrison bases - why don't we churn out 2 or 3 basic scouts at Santiago Citadel (2 turns if we change the probe team there) for garrison duty, then focus on some defensive probes

(I presume that when OA produces its probe team in 3 turns that we move it downriver to GH - it'll make it in 1 turn - in time to board the trannie - completed in 4 turns - and sending it Great Collective's way. No need to rush either of these units, IMO)

Do we want to detour Warwag thru Sector Cratersouth and rehome it there? That way Craterwest won't suffer a minerals penalty when the colony pod is built

[Zeiter]

Once we get the loan from Lal, we'll likely be able to afford gene splicing on our own.

And those elite rovers are an expensive way to garrison bases - why don't we churn out 2 or 3 basic scouts at Santiago Citadel (2 turns if we change the probe team there) for garrison duty, then focus on some defensive probes

Perhaps. Although those rovers aren't really doing anything right now, so garrison duty is fine for now. But we should also try to make Int.Integrity a long-term goal. Those cheap 1-1-1 police are awesome. And we could control 4 drones in that fashion, which, coupled with a rec commons, would get our cities to size 7 without any drones. No need to build holotheatres or use doctors at all before hab complexes.

Also, you think we need to get defensive probes up already? Nobody else had doc:flex, so they have no way of getting their probes here, and on top of that, they don't even know where we are yet. So I'd say the risk of getting infiltrated is minimal right now. There are other more pressing matters for us right now, I think.

I guess neither the Morganites or Data Angels want to talk to us, as they haven't purchased our commlink from Yang yet. I would infer then that talks with them wouldn't be particularly fruitful anyways if they have no urge to talk or do business with us.

[Googlie]

Originally posted by Zeiter
Also, you think we need to get defensive probes up already? Nobody else had doc:flex, so they have no way of getting their probes here, and on top of that, they don't even know where we are yet. So I'd say the risk of getting infiltrated is minimal right now. There are other more pressing matters for us right now, I think.

Don't forget that they can pop a Unity Foil (as Zak has) and - the Angels especially - could load a probeteam, on one and send it exploring

I guess neither the Morganites or Data Angels want to talk to us, as they haven't purchased our commlink from Yang yet. I would infer then that talks with them wouldn't be particularly fruitful anyways if they have no urge to talk or do business with us.

Of course it could be that they didn't get our not-so-subtle hints that we'd found Yang (or, as with us, Yang might just be refusing to sell it to them now)

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Googlie
HGmm - I'd rather get Ind Auto from Morgan for Gene Splicing (it's on our Doc Int/MCC beeline)

Sounds great!

That IoD that we evaded will likely drop its mindworm cargo off in the fungus at 63:39, so we can hunt it/them down with our elite Chiron Knights, giving us some additional ec's (Remember that CK now has 3 movement points!!)

Ah I'm afraid that IoD didn't have a cargo AFAIK.

Do we want to detour Warwag thru Sector Cratersouth and rehome it there? That way Craterwest won't suffer a minerals penalty when the colony pod is built

Sounds good to me.



Re the Morganites or the Angels not having contacted us, something GeoModder said a while back IRL (can't remember anymore what it was though ) made me think that the Angels weren't even aware human commlinks could be bought from the Hive. Do you think it could be possible only we are aware of this possibility?

[Maniac]

Question: What will be the task of the probe team now under production in Santiago Citadel?

[Maniac]

I've been running a simulation, and based on that I've got a few suggestions:

Olympus Academy will grow to size 2 in five turns. And problem is we don't have any unit available to garrison the base when that happens: all are already taken up for exploration or garrison duty elsewhere. That's why I'd propose to follow Googlie's suggestion to build a scout patrol now in Santiago Citadel. It would take two turns to produce and two turns to get there, so we'd reach OA a bit before they're needed there.

This would mean we couldn't build a probe team right away in SC2. But am I correct the purpose of that probe team would be to infiltrate Zakharov or a human faction to our west? In that case we couldn't use the probe team for a few years anyway if we started building it right away. It'll take several years for our transport to go infiltrate Yang and come back before we could go explore our west for another faction. And I estimate we'll only get an eastern coastal base (to build a transport and go infiltrate Zak?) around MY 2141.

So we could wait a few years before building a second probe team. Therefore I'd like to propose the following build queue for Santiago Citadel:
1) scout patrol (to garrison OA)
2) former (to build a road east of SC2 and then go help mining the mineral rocks north of OA)
3) the probe team


Something else concerning Olympus Academy: Do we still want to build a colony pod there? This would mean we couldn't keep the base at size 2, and thus would be unable to work both the monolith and the rocky minerals. How about we only build a colony pod in Sparta Command, and establish for now only one eastern coastal base, near that northeastern minerals bonus tile (allowing us to quickly build transport(s) and infiltrate/invade Zakharov)? OA could instead build eg a former after the current probe team is finished, to speed up construction of that IMHO rather important minerals mine.

[Zeiter]

Olympus Academy will grow to size 2 in five turns. And problem is we don't have any unit available to garrison the base when that happens: all are already taken up for exploration or garrison duty elsewhere. That's why I'd propose to follow Googlie's suggestion to build a scout patrol now in Santiago Citadel. It would take two turns to produce and two turns to get there, so we'd reach OA a bit before they're needed there.

We could always nervestaple OA.

How about we use the next eastern colony pod to found that southern coastal base option by the sea nutrient tile? Then, that base will grow quickly, and we can build a CP there, which we will plant to the north near the coastal min tile.

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Zeiter
How about we use the next eastern colony pod to found that southern coastal base option by the sea nutrient tile? Then, that base will grow quickly, and we can build a CP there, which we will plant to the north near the coastal min tile.

That base near the nutrient tile could be established in the same year as a base near the minerals tile. Without hurrying it would probably take some 12 years to build another CP (10 minerals to start with, 8 minerals added in the 8 turns while the base is size 1 and working the 3-0-0 tile, and then the last 12 minerals when the base is at size 2 and producing 3 minerals/turn, assuming a forest could be worked then). Then three more years transportation before we could found the new base. And then we still would have to start building a transport.

There's also another matter to consider. Our bureaucracy limit is six. Every base beyond that adds on average two bureaucracy-drones. Meaning we would have to build two extra scout patrols to compensate per base we build. This makes founding new bases a less lucrative investment than it was until now. That's why I'd personally prefer to limit colonization to very strategic (eg one base near the east/west coast) or productive sites, until we have a road network, connecting all our bases and allowing us to move police forces fast in our empire. Then we could react more easily to new drones arising because of new base foundations.

[Zeiter]

Ah, yes, b-drones. Good point. So, the northern base it'll be, then.

This gives us even more of an incentive to get GS. That way we can start building upwards if we encounter problems like b-drones from building outwards. I would also suggest researching social psych sometime in the future.

[Googlie]

Some thoughts re the above (not necessarily in any order):

First duty of the probe team should be to infiltrate Yang. Then if Invincible meets the Gaians, Angels or Morgan to the south, we should pronto send the probe back out doing its thing (assuming it survives the Yang infiltration, that is)

If yon IoD isn't carrying any mindworms, then it won't make for the nearest land (nothing to drop off) so might attack the Invincible instead. We should steel ourselves to probably lose it (I lost it 9 out of 10 in scenario tests)

I support the idea of Citadel changing to a scout, as well as the 3rd Tomcat, for roadbuilding purposes

Our best nutrient bases are the 2 crater bases - why don't we make them the colonypod generators for the time being, and use our other bases as specialty for the interim (Citadel producing units, Harbour producing naval vessels, Command doing another Colony Pod - as it will be 2 pop next turn - and Academy can be a powerhouse after that mineral special has a mine on it - maybe to get a Special Project underway (we only seem to have 3 mineral specials on our continent, plus 2 offshore)

I agree that we need to watch the drone situation - a size 2 base is useless if one of the pops is a doctor - adds nothing to the mix at all. Once we get Int Int we can add Police to our scouts for double the riot control, but that's some time away as yet. And we're at six bases now, so maybe Citadel should crank out about a half dozen cheap scouts - they'd be shells, really, with decent morale, upgradeable after we get decent armour to put on them (and maybe AAA as well down the line)

(And if we ever got the Cloning Vats we could run a 3P society - Police, Planned, Power, with awesome morale and oodles of free supported units per base - but that's waaaaay down the line)

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Googlie
If yon IoD isn't carrying any mindworms, then it won't make for the nearest land (nothing to drop off) so might attack the Invincible instead. We should steel ourselves to probably lose it (I lost it 9 out of 10 in scenario tests)

Oh darn. I have some hope though it wasn't attacked. When the Chiron Knights popped a worm out of a pod long ago, near Río Rojo, I already got to see the battle where the worm attacked after I pressed "End turn". Probably because we're the last human in the turnplay order. This time I didn't see anything though. So I'm hoping the IoD moved elsewhere.

[Primus Pilus]

my thoughts...

1) Probe Team sth to get Yang datalinks
2) Build cheap Probe Foil to infiltrate other factions
3) Continue expansion along Hive coast asap
4) Use Crater bases for CP's to expand nth and along east coast
5) OK w/Former production to build roads/resources
6) Weather Paradigm would be GREAT !!!
7) Scout Patrols to limit drone problem and free-up Rovers for Pod Popping/explore

[Maniac]

Quickly playing the turn before going to bed:

Battle Report MY 2130

• When I opened the turn, the diplomacy window with the Angels appeared, empty.
• Sector Cratersouth completes former. New production set to colony pod.
• SC2 production changed to scout patrol. SC1 production set to colony pod.
• Shinsengumi moved to SC1 for garrison duty.
• Former Tomcat-2 commenced building a road between SC1 and OA.
• Warwag rehomed to Sector Cratersouth. Didn't manage to move back out SC4 this turn, but will without a problem reach its destination SC3 next year.
• Tomcat-3 moving in position to plant a forest on that SC4 nutrient bonus.
• Alien Artifact moving further towards our bases.
• Rolling Thunder reached the northern tip of our continent and started heading back. To the pod on (64.12)?
• Chiron Knights finally moved out of Hivean territory. It uncovered the remaining unexplored terrain, and it ended its turn next to a unity pod.
• SCC Invincible further moved south as according to Captain Dissident's orders. It ended its turn next to a unity pod on an ocean tile. We can pop it next year, though of course there is some 40% chance we'll get an IoD and will have to run away. SCC Invincible also discovered a rocky tile south of its last location.
• R-112 CRV moved two tiles south. We've reached the southern end of a peninsula, so there's no alternative but turn around and head back into Hivean territory. Any ideas how to further proceed with this unit? Try to get it withdrawn to our nearest base? Move it straight through Hive territory in the hope Yang doesn't get pissed off too much?

I have not contacted Lal. Could someone please test in a parallel save whether it's possible to get a loan from him? If not, better leave him alone in the official turn to prevent pissing him off too much. I'll probably only be able to get next online in 20 to 24 hours, so if anyone wants to finish and post this turn after learning the necessary info about Lal, please go ahead!

I don't have time right now to make screenshots, so if someone else would want to make some, I'd be grateful.

[Dis]

maybe the Angels are just letting them know they have our comm links, but really have no offers at the moment.

I tried contacting Lal. First he demanded doctrine: flexibility. I did request nonlinear in return, but no dice. I refused his demand. He *****ed about it, but didn't go to war or anything.

I requested a loan with generous payments, but he said he did not have any money to loan.

I could post screen shots, but my spartan cities are yellow. How do I get rid of that? One annoying thing about SMAC X is the factions get in the wrong position when I'm playing regular games. And I can't remember what position they are supposed to be in.

[Maniac]

Thanks for the quick reply!

Seeing as Lal didn't want to trade with us, I sent the save on to Gaia.

I'll hopefully be able to reply more tomorrow, but now I urgently have to See you later!