Drone Negotiations

[Snowflake]

message from buster

Was going to suggest it - yes we could send over a proto from Anvil if you make the road.

Btw we are now at size 35 & will go to 42 next turn with two new cities, which is same as Angels (provided they do not grow in the meantime) meaning elections next turn is still too early (unless Angels shrink).

However two turns from now we should be at minimum 47 and bigger than Angels.

[Snowflake]

Buster:

Turn done - were now at size 42 and equal to Angels. If election is called prior to Angels turn there will be three candidates - if election is called after (and they grow) it will be you and Angels.

On our next turn (2149) we will grow by another 7 to 49 and so could call elections with candidates to choose between being you and us. Suggest we do that.

Uni has landed their scout on our turf we will send them a notice to move out. If they don't we will arrange to bribe the unit & so declare war. This will also leave us free to probe their ass off in case trade negotiations go wrong.

[Snowflake]

Kody:

It's suggested that the drones call the election and vote for themselves. I assume that your new votes actually count after the start of the turn? It'll be a bit of a concidence that the hive calls an election when the drones just reach the right size.

It's suggested that both our factions make an pretence of securing votes from other factions. It'll be interesting in flushing out loyalties or grudges that we weren't aware of.

As for who wins, I'm more inclined to see the drones win. Simply because the infiltration data won't be checked by the Hive and I feel that someone checking the infiltration data will be more important than the extra trade. However, right now I don't think it will matter too much either way.

I do believe data angels are actually slot 7 and drones are slot 6. So the data angels turn is after yours. This is good news as the AI will be unlikely to call an election until your next turn. Looks like governership is nearly in the bag for one of us.
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On a different topic, I'm wondering whether the hive should just start sprawling like crazy. It would appear that golden pop booming isn't being run properly, and in attempting to achieve it there have been many muck ups that wouldn't have occurred if it hadn't been tried.

I'm starting to think a simpler strategy of building more bases and building many formers would be a more prudent strategy to pursue.

The main problem with that is while it increases production it fails to improve the hive's tech rate. I believe tech rate is paramount in our current situation and I know if someone would just pull the pop booming off properly tech will not be a problem at all for the Hive. The hive's tech rate achieved 1 tech every 4 turns in turn 2148 when the simulator was played 5 years forward from 2143.

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Finally on a issue is to do with the university-cycon trading.

I personally think the cycon are trying to chase a white elephant with that tech trade. No doubt the university will want to delay tech trading until after they get environment economics and will feel they don't need to hurry to get applied physics as they will have several years to trade the tech from any of the other factions. Also the cycon have given a pretty poor trade offer.

The hive shouldn't let themselves be persuaded to delay tech research if the cycon beg for more time on an uncertain tech trade.

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Anyway, we'll need to slip you ecological engineering soon after we get it. What have you been telling the others on how much the hive owes you techwise?

Can you think of a good excuse for the hive giving the drones ecological engineering? We probably need to get the stories straight as the cycon will be asking why the drones immediately got ecological engineering from the Hive.

It may not be needed until you decide to start making boreholes, and you might be thinking of just keeping research costs low.

[Snowflake]

buster

The simple strategy is probably better and on governorship - this will in final analysis be decided by the others though Angels (being at war w you and not with us may tip the scale in our favor - even if I seem to recall the AI usually abstains unless you are allied).

On the outlook of the tradedeal I tend to agree with you and likewise do not think you should slow down in the hope it happens.

We do not need ecological engineering at this point so now explanation needed for now. If we are going to want any of your techs any time soon it will be all that uni has as we are going to probe them. Otherwise first tech we will want will be environmental economics.

On the others I have said nothing specific about how much you owe us so if at some point you need to give a story just give whatever.

[Snowflake]

There's some discussion about future SPs in the Drones Embassy. Since Kody's not here I'll try to copy the discussions here in case people do not want to or do not have time to check that forum.

[Snowflake]

Enigma

It has come to my attention that we may want to divide up the SPs a bit.

The Hive is pretty intent on getting Cloudbase.
We also think the following are useful:
Ascetic virtues (+3 Police == GOOD)
Living Refinery (+4 Support == GOOD)
The Cloning Vats (on the way there - no more hive growth problem! might switch to Green every once in a while)
We may get Adaptive Doctrine if we're sly with CyCon / Peace, and so too snag the PEG.

The Drones probably want:
The Longevity vaccine (less police == more drones)
The Citizen's defence force
The Cyborg Factory
The HSA

And other such good stuff.
What's your opinion on the SP sharing?

[Snowflake]

buster

Sorry but above SP distribution is not anywhere near being even handed - Cloudbase, vats & ascetic virtues are probably the three most valuable in the whole game.

Vats for you makes sense as you will benefit more from it than us. That does not mean we won't benefit though - it is an extremely serious boost to any faction.

Likewise the research doubling ones make sense to give to us to build in the capitol that also has Mechant guild (those are not part of the list though).

Living refinery I can see the sense in going to you as you getting +4 support means more than us getting +2.
Citicens defense is obvious for us as it does you no good.

Now that leaves cloudbase, cyborg factory, PEG, ascetic virtues & HSA. We will have as much benefit from those as you will.

Suggest one faction takes cloudbase another the other four (or as many of them as the cycon do not get).

Distributed like that I will leave it to you to decide if you prefer Cloudbase or the other four. I will be Ok either way.

[Jamski]

Cloudbase. Yees.
But is it equal to cyborg factory, PEG, AV, and HSA all together?

-Jam

[Mead]

Originally posted by Jamski
Cloudbase. Yees.
But is it equal to cyborg factory, PEG, AV, and HSA all together?

-Jam

No, it is not.

I too love Cloudbase, but not enough to give up all four.

Let us take Cloudbase, and let Drones choose three of the remaining four.

This way, we get CB and at least one other. Drones get three out of the remaining four, but, the three they choose, leaving us the one they want the least.

We get first choice out of the five, they get the next three choices, and we are left with the one they do not want.

This should be our bottom line offer.

We should not make this offer to the Drones unless all other negotiations fail.

It is a very sweet deal for the Drones. If they reject it, then we should try our best to get as many of the SPs without their help.



Mead

[Micha]

According to your plan, we would end up having the HSA as our second SP out of those five. Since this is SMAX, not SMAC, the Hunter-Seeker-Algorithm isn´t that juicy anymore. Why don´t we distribute two or three amongst our both factions and let the rest have whoever builds it first?

[Enigma_Nova]

I move for a hostile SP takeover action as a show of power.

[Snowflake]

People, think this way. If you feel Cloudbase is not worth the 4 SPs, then take the 4 SPs and give them Cloudbase. Will you still feel unfair?

Cloudbase is in the near future. Whereas the other 4 SPs may not be 4 at all. CC has a spare SP sitting there that they can grab PEG right away. The others are far in the future where it may not influence the game as Cloudbase.

If we say to give PEG to the Drones then they would trade HEC to peace for Adap and that might save peace without we having to spend lots of real effort. CC might grab another SP but that would be the Drone's problem.

If somebody have a real meaningful proposal (that includes more SPs perhaps, say the research enhancing ones) I'm all for it. If we are simply talking about hostile actions and getting drones mad and stuff, I guess my time maybe here to quit too following Kody.

[Micha]

nah, Enigma is a hardliner, and fortunately he stands alone with this anti-drones opinion. In fact, the Crimson Guards are already observing him, but *shhh*, you didn´t hear that from me

Well, I´d go for cloudbase then, maybe we can later trade for another SP when the drones might change their opinion on this...

[Snowflake]

My post at the Drones Embassy:

Buster, we've had some discussions in the Hive although no formal poll has been conducted. Let me see how do you feel about this:

The Hive likes the Cloudbase. And it is generally agreed that we would be willing to let you take at least 3 of the 4 SPs you listed. Since CC has a spare SP sitting right there I imagine it is very likely they will grab one of the 4 in your list. In other words there will not be any material difference between our positions. You do realize that building 4 SP needs lots minerals, so in case if CC has not grabed one and you are unable to build your 4th one and the Hive is in perfect position to grab that from the CC's hands perhaps we should go for it instead of letting it fall to CC's hands although I don't see it being a likely scenerio.

For the rest SPs we may need to discuss more when the time comes and perhaps on a one to one bases. I would agree that Vats are pretty important to the Hive and it is beneficial if the Drones build a research doubling SP in the base with Merchant guild. It may not be necessary to concentrate all research doubling SPs in one base though since the research points may eventually be more than it requires to finish a tech in one turn and that would mean waste. It may be actually more efficient if these research doubling SPs are distributed between us.

[Enigma_Nova]

I don't like the outcome of this.
I'd rather we take whatever SPs we can, screw the Drones.
Let them get mad.
I suggest we try to get the CyCon off our backs, either by conquering them or by allying with them. Then we go on a SP spree, and if the Drones feel betrayed, let them make their time.