Military Affairs Function

[GeoModder]

I still endorse attack. Those ships are to be used, and the only Hive ships in the area are that laser foil and the cutter. The cutter is no match for base defenses in Atlantis. Our ships are faster, thus this means that even if we only build missile foils, they have the same reach as Hive cruisers.

Also, most likely all Hive airunits in reach are probably busy taking the base defenses of Conshelf 57, thus unless they want to sacrifice their airfleet, they can't counterattack our cruisers next turn.

Btw, Pact with Roze now?

[GeoModder]

Originally sended by HongHu
Dear Function Maniac,

I was notified that the colony pod your captured is determined to be affected by an unknown planet virus that may be deadly and highly contagious. The Hive coastal guard had to take it out because it posed great potential threat to the Hive's security.

Comrade HongHu

Well, I like to use this as the same reason for counterattacking their ships in the area. We can always say we detected viral residue on their ships, and since they were sailing back to Hive, they had to be eliminated.

Or else, I do the attack, and you guys blame it later on me and I resign as Military Affairs Function as punishment for being a rogue commander

I certainly do not agree with any move that gets Hive away with this. It was a civilian unit, we had no plans whatsoever to found a base there, so Hive must be punished for this atrocity.

[GeoModder]

Originally posted by Maniac
All that added together means we have about zero chance to kill that PEACE schooner, even if we attack with 2 impact cruisers.

It depends. I did some testing. If that schooner and transport went full speed to Conshelf 57, this means that they are not on the same tile. Also, the cutter can in that case not cover any of the PEACE ships. The Hive laser foil was NE of the PEACE fleet to start with, then it can only cover the transport, which is not a unit which PEACE can conquer Conshelf 57. Anyway, this means that with the above explanation that that schooner is not covered with a Hive ships. If it is covered with a needlejet, then the schooner can be destroyed by long range artillery, and the needlejet wouldn't get a scratch.

Btw, something I thought of: we have infiltration with the Angels now, so this means we can check the base screens from their northern bases on that straits if Hive and/or PEACE units are visible.

If no PEACE units are spotted, then we know for sure that they hide under the Hive units.

Anyway, this means that perhaps only one cruiser must be sacrified to eliminate the schooner. Use Angel infiltration info, send a cruiser in the straits to check by going near them, and if the schooner is found, fire at will.

A second option, leave the schooner unscatched, transmit a message to PEACE that despite our war with Hive ATM we still live up to our preliminary agreement, but that we would appreciate if no Hive unit at all enters Conshelf 57 when they occupy that base. Refusal of this request will cause the destruction of Crossbone Way off course.
And next to that message, we take out all Hive units we can find around that Island, and send a regret message in the same style (contaminiation) to Hive with perhaps a pré-accepted Truce proposal and the message that it is up to them now to send a Treaty proposal in return to accept the end of hostilities.

[Impaler[WrG]]

We shouldnt sacrafice ANY units to pointlessly attack non military units of PEACE. If we end up in full scale war with the Hive we will need to ignore Peace as we simply dont have the resorces to waste on them.

And remember one of the Cruisers needs to be ReHomed to Atlantis.

[Maniac]

GeoModder, using Data Angel infiltration is a good idea.
However it won't tell us anything if the schooner has moved to (29.45), (29.43) or (30.42). Therefore my opinion is:
If the schooner is within an Angel base radius on a square alone without any Hive unit, it's worth sacrifying one cruiser to eliminate the schooner and thereby PEACE.
However if we don't spot the schooner, it isn't worth IMO spending any cruiser on a hunt that isn't sure of success.
How does that sound as a compromise between Impaler and you?

[GeoModder]

Think, Maniac. Hive turn comes after PEACE turn, off course we won't see a PEACE unit if a Hive unit is over it.

What we need to do is check the Angel base screens, look for Hive units, and send a cruiser to it to double check if PEACE units are under it. As long as the cruiser has a movement or two left when discovering the schooner with a Hive ship above, it can return out of sight with coverage of the other cruisers in case of attack later. But if we find the schooner with a plane hanging over it, we can attack the schooner without damaging the plane then, since our cruisers don't have SAM ability yet. This means in game terms that units which cannot be attacked, be ignored.

Having observed Hive tactics sofar (last turn ) they prefer to cover a ship with a jet. And as explained before, I expect as well that they're going full speed west to be as far from us as possible. So I simply expect to see a Hive unit on one of the locations you posted. My proposal is to take that risk. It gains us a lot, and a better cruiser can be build now as replacement.

Impaler, I'm not proposing to attack the PEACE transport foil, that unit is useless ATM.

But before I forget, to make sure that the schooner hasn't run north, our Calico cruiser should go forward 4-5 turns as well, and then return towards Atlantis to stay out of the Hive aircoverage.

Another idea. Impaler suggested to probe Angels to gain some ec's. Probably Roze will declare vendetta when we do that. Well, since we outtech the Angels, and we take an Angel base, we gain their mapinfo. Perhaps Roze has a map of Hive already...
But I like to do the following manoeuver with this:
- take an Angel base (Coder's Pit, 1 defender) with the Mammoth Task Force. 1 marine attack for the defender, 1 garrison attack to take the base.
- Unload the remaining marine.
- Move the transport with the used garrison and marine out of Coder's Pit.
- Move the remaining marine to that base south of Coder's Pit. 9 to 10 Roze will contact us to give back Coder's Pit.
- We accept truce for that base, our units in Angel Territory return automatically to a base of us.

Our gain is ec's from the probe, the conquest AND the Angel world map, and I would be surprised if we lose any unit in this.

Edit:

Originally posted by Impaler[WrG]
And remember one of the Cruisers needs to be ReHomed to Atlantis.

Well, let's use the MBV cruiser then to run after that schooner, next turn it will be destroyed anyway by Hive.

I take it, from the postings so far, that quite a few members still want PEACE out. But for MAF planmaking, how far does CPU wants to go in letting Hive pay for their assault?
I suppose a poll is in order (again).

[Maniac]

Originally posted by GeoModder
Think, Maniac. Hive turn comes after PEACE turn, off course we won't see a PEACE unit if a Hive unit is over it.

I know that. If a Hive unit is over the PEACE schooner, we'd have to sacrifice two cruisers to kill the schooner. That wouldn't be worth it IMO. So if we don't see a PEACE unit alone on a square, we shouldn't try to go and sink it IMO.

Another idea. Impaler suggested to probe Angels to gain some ec's.

I just did a test what the odds are that a hardened probe skimship would survive stealing credits from the Angels. In all ten tests the probe was captured. Could someone please check these results and see what they get? If the probe skimship doesn't survive though, is it worth it??

9 to 10 Roze will contact us to give back Coder's Pit.

Why do you think that? She could also ask for a tech. Also the Angels have a bigger military than us, and Googlie has edited the "faction diplomacy" settings to make the Angels more agressive towards the CyCon, so IMO there's a large chance that once we are in a war with Roze, it'll be for the rest of the game.


Edit: Btw, is it ok to attack the PEACE crawler near MBV with the missile interceptor?

[GeoModder]

Originally posted by Maniac
I know that. If a Hive unit is over the PEACE schooner, we'd have to sacrifice two cruisers to kill the schooner. That wouldn't be worth it IMO. So if we don't see a PEACE unit alone on a square, we shouldn't try to go and sink it IMO.

It depends, Maniac. If a Angel base screen shows Hive ship(s) in the straits, still a cruiser can check if under the unit(s) a schooner is hidden. If it is a hive ship above it, then we can't do anything without risking 2 cruisers, but if it is an air unit, we can sink the schooner. With no target, the cruiser will still have 2-3 movements to return to safer waters. I think I found the aircoverage frontier of the Hive in that strait. What I'm asking here is the sacrifice of one cruiser (the MBV one). It can be replaced easily as well since the CCS Love Boat is about repaired.

Originally posted by Maniac
I just did a test what the odds are that a hardened probe skimship would survive stealing credits from the Angels.

Tested on a simulator or the real turn? The factors can differ a lot between the real thing and a mere simulation.

Originally posted by Maniac
Why do you think that? She could also ask for a tech. Also the Angels have a bigger military than us, and Googlie has edited the "faction diplomacy" settings to make the Angels more agressive towards the CyCon, so IMO there's a large chance that once we are in a war with Roze, it'll be for the rest of the game.

Just because of that agressiviness, a base has for an AI a lot greater value then a tech. What would Coder's Pit be worth for a mindcontrol? 500 ec? More? A tech costs are nothing compared to that amount of energy. And because of that military, I would bail out as well again.

Originally posted by Maniac
Edit: Btw, is it ok to attack the PEACE crawler near MBV with the missile interceptor?

PUT is at present not at war with PEACE, but I'm ok for it. Is a majority of the members agreed with destruction of PEACE then? Drogue not, Obstructor is, you are, I have to decide yet, but I'm inclined to do so. I suggest moving that interceptor as last unit. Btw, the needlejet in Gardens Point still goes west, I suppose? Normally it moves just north of the base area of Crossbone Way, thus it's possible it spots unit(s) as well...

[Maniac]

Originally posted by GeoModder
Tested on a simulator or the real turn? The factors can differ a lot between the real thing and a mere simulation.

A simulation. So who knows it could be possible that in a different simulation the probe would survive 10/10.

PUT is at present not at war with PEACE, but I'm ok for it

Ah yes true too. In that case I'd change my opinion completely and request that the CyCon impact interceptor destroys the crawler instead. That way PUT reputation remains unscratched.

[GeoModder]

So you make occasionaly diplomatic mistakes? Ok, the CC impact needlejet takes out that crawler if it comes in reach, and the PUT needlejet going to Calico only scouts. Try to keep that unit out of sight of possible discovered PEACE units, will you?

Then I say send that PUT interceptor to Pamplona or Atlantis (takes a few turns, I know), and let it NOT land in a base in it's midflight, matter of confusing all who watches.

[Impaler[WrG]]

Why Destroy it when we can Mind Control it.

Take the New Impaler Class Transport in Athena and the Boy Scout their and move to Triplex and Pick up the 2 Probe Teams and a Probe Defence. Then the folowing turn sail over next to the Crawler, unload a Probe and take the Crawler (I think it will be around 80 Credits). This will give MBV +4 minerals (making it a much better location for military production ) and it will cut by 2/3 the mineral output of CrossBone.

The Transport can then continue westward towards the Hive or Northward towards the Drones (it will take aroudn 5 turns to reach Drones but infiltrating them is a very high priority IMHO). If we go north be shure to pick up the 2 Probe Teams that have been produced in Cycon territory by moving them north of Pi Square and jumping on the Transport as it sails by, then we have 3 Probes witchwitch to infiltrate and the Boy Scout in the Transport can be upgraded to Impact Marines for 60 Credits if we need some thing to "kick the door in" when we reach the Drones.

[GeoModder]

Ok, some statements:

I fully agree about a plan to infiltrate the drones.
If not as Impaler suggests (if Hive continues hostilities, I'm thinking of letting them take a base, and infiltrate then), then the probe foil under construction ATM (sorry, forgot the base name, Athena?) can infiltrate Believers and then continue towards Drone territory as well.

Further more I think it's time to increase efforts for a military build up ASAP. We all know these are precarious times, and how stretched our military is. Simply not enough hardware IMO.

[Impaler[WrG]]

Were horibly behind Economicaly which is why were having such a hard time keeping up Military Production, every time we get a Crawler built someone scraps it to build something Military.

A full scale military build up at this point would be logical only if we felt we could completly wipe out a major rival and end the game victoriously. This is not the case and a build up like that would just be just the thing to put us so perminently behind economicaly and tecnologicaly that we could never hope to recover.

Instead we need to focus on Economic and Tec to stay combetitive in the long run. We have a lot of small bases that are very unproductive now, with proper investment these bases could return to a resonable level of productivity.

It seems the situation with the Hive may be improving, if so then we will want to stay in a full build mode and try to work out an arangment under witch we will jointly attack the Angels. That and and eventual push for the Cloning Vats will keep us in the game, later we can concoure the Belivers for yet more territory if we wish.

Should the Hive attack us though a build up will become nessary as Geo sugjests. So I propose we create 2 different sets of Internal Affairs orders one for War and one for Peace. I will ofcorse make the peace orders and if Geo wishes he can make the war orders if he has time.

[GeoModder]

Ok, I opened the PUT thread.

It looks bad indeed, and I have a few questions:

I see a Hive drop rover in Carseldine. How can that unit drop there if the closest Hive base is out of 8 tile radius?
The only way this is possible is that a Hive transport full of drop rovers landed in Gold Coast or Sun Coast, and from there drops initiated.

Is it in a case like this possible to ask on one of the gods to look if that Hive unit came there on a valid way, and not by the multiple airdrop bug?

[Maniac]

A little reminder: to make sure CyCon gets missile weapons prototyped and the two needlejets can be transferred, don't forget to upgrade the trance scout in Caboolture to a drop squad and drop it into a CyCon base.

Btw, should the bases of Gardens Point and Caboolture perhaps be obliterated to deny them to the conquerors? Obliterating bases together with using nerve gas might explain what Marphiac means when he says: "We don't know who scorched the lands" & "the CPU continents as they exist today, destroyed".