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**GeoModder** · February 12, 2004, 21:05

Originally posted by Maniac

A valid possibility too of course. For the record, my reason to suggest (69.77) was that tile profits from a river energy bonus, and also I was thinking we should gradually move formers to high altitude terrain (in other words: to the north, for these two formers) and terraform that. That way if there's a sea level raise after all, all the current work won't be submerged.

Mmm, haven't checked the hight of 69.77, probably IS low since it's a river tile near the sea. I'll check. But I can agree with moving formers north WHEN there is enough planted/constructed on that southern peninsula.
Again, need to check. Luckily we got an extra few days to decide now

**Maniac** · February 16, 2004, 14:06

Any further thoughts? Some comments:

Mmm, haven't checked the hight of 69.77, probably IS low since it's a river tile near the sea.

(69.77) is higher than 67,79 IIRC.

But I can agree with moving formers north WHEN there is enough planted/constructed on that southern peninsula.

Seems like a sound plan.

We still have a former in the extreme south, though, and Binary Bastion and Boolean Bay are growing very slowly IIRC.

**GeoModder** · February 16, 2004, 19:29

Originally posted by Maniac
(69.77) is higher than 67,79 IIRC.

256 m at the shore, is near the danger level for a sea level rise caused by the council...

Originally posted by Maniac
(69.77) is higher than 67,79 IIRC.

We still have a former in the extreme south, though, and Binary Bastion and Boolean Bay are growing very slowly IIRC. [/QUOTE]

But ok, if that former there plants a few forests later in the middle of that peninsula, I'm happy. Let's terraform 69.77.

Some IAF proposals:

Triplex: scrap Energy Bank and watch out! There is a Hologram Theatre in the production list!!!
Logic Loop: hurry crawler, cost only 3 or 4 energy
Thermal Tassadar: RecCom or Sea Former
HMB and LA: scrap Naval Yard
Zetaris: Missile Cruiser or Children Creche
Apolyton Prime: Aerospace Complex
Athena Anchorage: Transport

Aurora: Probe Skimship
Casablanca: RecCom
HMB: does it need to be a trance scout?

Suggestion for renames:
LA --> Abort-Retry-Fail(ed) to remember some other factions the error of their behaviour

Liar's Lair --> 'Misinformation' something
HMB: No fantasy yet

**Maniac** · February 16, 2004, 21:51

Ah, an edited IAF post I see.

There are a few differences with the production orders I set. Though they can of course still be changed.

Let's terraform 69.77.

Thanks.

Triplex: scrap Energy Bank and watch out! There is a Hologram Theatre in the production list!!!

Good catch.

Replace it by "stockpile energy" I guess?

Logic Loop: hurry crawler, cost only 3 or 4 energy

Will do so.

Thermal Tassadar: RecCom or Sea Former

That base has two doctors, so better a rec commons first IMHO.

HMB and LA: scrap Naval Yard

I again couldn't scrap the HMB naval yard this year.

And LA's one was destroyed upon base capture.

Zetaris: Missile Cruiser or Children Creche

Really? No rec commons??

That base hasn't got one yet, so if we go free market, it'll have drone problems. Hold a poll about it?

Apolyton Prime: Aerospace Complex

With AP's current production, that would take 11 years. How about we wait with building such expensive facilities until we have enough money to hurry them in one turn, and build crawlers or other quickly-built units in those bases in the meanwhile? With the PEG we should hopefully have enough money to do lots of hurrying in many CPU bases.

Athena Anchorage: Transport

Done. Athena's production has temporarily decreased due to a worker shift to speed up base growth, but production should be back on normal level in one or two years.

Aurora: Probe Skimship

Okay, I'll switch from sea former to probe skimship.

Casablanca: RecCom

Done.

HMB: does it need to be a trance scout?

What instead? Rec commons? Or plasma garrison? (that last would be unnecessary though IMO - AFAIK we only need a small garrison to defend against possible mind worms etc)

***
Btw, can someone come up with some masterplan to prevent Mega Reboot (HMB) from starving while at the same time prevent a drone riot??

Also, about the new AP crawler, can I suggest to move it two tiles east to harvest that forest, and then next year move it further to the mineral bonus square, and harvest that one for Apolyton Prime?

**GeoModder** · February 17, 2004, 10:13

Originally posted by Maniac
Ah, an edited IAF post I see.

Happens all the time...

Originally posted by Maniac
That base has two doctors, so better a rec commons first IMHO.

Mmm, ok for now...

Originally posted by Maniac
I again couldn't scrap the HMB naval yard this year.

I seems that only 1 kind of facility can be scrapped then a year. Perhaps next turn when we have Pampalona scrap 'all naval yards'. Shouldn't be a problem then.

Originally posted by Maniac
Really? No rec commons??

That base hasn't got one yet, so if we go free market, it'll have drone problems. Hold a poll about it?

Base growth is stagnant, IMO no FM for the next 2 turns since we're still at war, and when switching to FM you suggest a 20 psych energy allocation. Wouldn't that keep drones inthere at bay? I still endorse children creche.

Originally posted by Maniac
With AP's current production, that would take 11 years. How about we wait with building such expensive facilities until we have enough money to hurry them in one turn, and build crawlers or other quickly-built units in those bases in the meanwhile?

How about recycling center? 4 turns. 1 more then a crawler.

Originally posted by Maniac AFAIK we only need a small garrison to defend against possible mind worms etc)

Ok, you got a point, but take that plasma garrison out of HMB at first opportunity

Originally posted by Maniac Btw, can someone come up with some masterplan to prevent Mega Reboot (HMB) from starving while at the same time prevent a drone riot??

Yes, quickly hold a poll to release you from turnplayer status, support another one who hasn't opened the 2156 turn yet and let that probe near LA mind control the crawler inbetween those bases.

I now, gods above, it's cheating

Never mind...

Originally posted by Maniac and then next year move it further to the mineral bonus square, and harvest that one for Apolyton Prime?

That jeopardizes (bat spelling, sorry) the mineral amount of Zetaris.

**GeoModder** · February 17, 2004, 10:15

A little side note: LA has a plasma garrison for stays. I suggest a Command Center as production. Can be handy as a southern mil. units building base by conflict with Angels or Hive.

**GeoModder** · February 17, 2004, 10:57

Some last minute confirmations and orders:

formers on 71.65 move to 70.66 and construct a mine
former on 76.72 continuous road building to LL
formers on 79.69 and 79.67 plant a forest on 79.67
mover the formers on 69.79 by the river to 69.77 (no road on 69.79)
The Impact Marines on 38.70 clean the mess PEACE left behind
the ship on 63.57 moves to Phenix Isle (Mart has problems with seasickness)

Btw, the crawler production in LL is meant for the building of the NA in BB, or not?

**Maniac** · February 17, 2004, 16:24

Base growth is stagnant, IMO no FM for the next 2 turns since we're still at war, and when switching to FM you suggest a 20 psych energy allocation. Wouldn't that keep drones inthere at bay? I still endorse children creche.

Indeed, with 20% psych a rec commons wouldn't be necessary for now.
I don't see the use for a Children's Creche though. As you say, base growth is stagnant, so +2 Growth doesn't matter, and it doesn't have real efficiency problems either.
Anyway, I made a poll with the choice between a Children's Creche and a crawler.

A little side note: LA has a plasma garrison for stays. I suggest a Command Center as production. Can be handy as a southern mil. units building base by conflict with Angels or Hive.

That base produces three minerals at the moment. Can it build many units??

formers on 79.69 and 79.67 plant a forest on 79.67

For all clarity, what do you plan to do next with these formers? Move west to help build that mine near Zetaris? Or move east to build a road towards And/Or Gate?

**GeoModder** · February 17, 2004, 16:45

Originally posted by Maniac
I don't see the use for a Children's Creche though. As you say, base growth is stagnant, so +2 Growth doesn't matter,

Hug? Thus a +2 growth wouldn't stimulate population growth again? Ok, some wrongthinking of me then. Well then, A missile cruiser is another possibility.

Originally posted by Maniac
That base produces three minerals at the moment. Can it build many units??

That base grows, but yes, I suppose the next worker will be a drone. Trance scout won't help against that though. How about RecTanks? Takes as much time as a Command Center.

Originally posted by Maniac
For all clarity, what do you plan to do next with these formers? Move west to help build that mine near Zetaris? Or move east to build a road towards And/Or Gate?

Split them up afterwards. Planting forests takes 2 turns. By then that road is finished so one of the planting formers can jump over and starts building a road on the last tile to And/Or Gate. The second can go two that mine building near Zetaris. Won't send all two for the mine since by the time they're there are only two construction turns left, so I think the assistance of one former is enough.

**Maniac** · February 17, 2004, 16:52

Originally posted by GeoModder
Split them up afterwards.

Ok, I agree. Then there is a small inefficiency though. If we plant the forest on (79.67), then it will take a full turn to move to the Zetarian mine in construction. If we'd plant the forest one tile more to the NW, the former would only take 2/3 of a movement point to move to the mine square, and it could already help with the construction in the same turn.

On the other side though that square is some 350 metres lower than (79.67), so it can be submerged quicker.

So what to do?

**GeoModder** · February 17, 2004, 17:38

If you insist, I won't discuss about planting it on a lower tile. In 20-30 turns that starting forest will outgrow other tiles nearby anyway, so that's no real difference. But if you plant it on the NW tile, I suggest moving BOTH formers to the mine construction near Zetaris after planting. Might be an idea for moving that Apolyton Prime crawler to a mine near Zetaris, while not intervening to much in the mineral output of Zetaris.

**Maniac** · February 21, 2004, 13:29

Originally posted by GeoModder
That jeopardizes (bat spelling, sorry) the mineral amount of Zetaris.

Okay. In that case let's rehome the crawler to Zetaris before letting it harvest the mineral mine.
However as a consequence of this Apolyton Prime's mineral production won't be boosted to a more decent level. Therefore I would vote against building a aerospace complex or command center there as unit production would go too slow.
IMHO we should either crawler as many minerals as possible to Zetaris, or crawler as many minerals as possible to Apolyton Prime, to make one of them a good military production center. Dividing crawlers over the two bases to get two mediocre military production bases (and twice having to build and maintain military morale boosting facilities etc) instead of one large center is inefficient IMO.

But if you plant it on the NW tile, I suggest moving BOTH formers to the mine construction near Zetaris after planting.

Ok.

***

Btw, some suggestions for the PUT turn:
Kelvin Grove & Carseldine: new production Trance Plasma Garrison. Or something more fancy like a missile rover or so?

Caboolture: new production former? The speed of our population growth and crawler production is higher than our terraformation speed atm - we're running out of well-terraformed tiles.

Gardens Point: hurry with 20 credits.

Daintree & Longreach: change production to colony pods. Personally I think these times of a possible Drone invasion aren't really perfect for founding new bases

but both Archaic and GeoModder are in favour, so the majority has decided.

**GeoModder** · February 21, 2004, 13:50

Originally posted by Maniac
Okay. In that case let's rehome the crawler to Zetaris before letting it harvest the mineral mine.

Forget this, let that crawler bring minerals to Apolyton, and switch that Zetaris mine then to the NW forest of Zetaris base screen. Production of the RecCom is a bit slower, but the base grows again and the facility will be finished in time to avoid drones.

Originally posted by Maniac
Kelvin Grove & Carseldine: new production Trance Plasma Garrison. Or something more fancy like a missile rover or so?

I would let them produce all the plasma steel garrison we need first. perhaps even a lot for CC later.

Originally posted by Maniac
Caboolture: new production former? The speed of our population growth and crawler production is higher than our terraformation speed atm - we're running out of well-terraformed tiles.

That base has no need for a former ATM, 18 turns for growth. Also, still no transport available for moving units from Caboolture to the main PUT land.
I suggest Research Hospital, and then a former.
Think about it, PUT is our researcher now, and with your FM proposal, CC won't research anything the next 8 turns. And perhaps we lose that drone there then.

Originally posted by Maniac Gardens Point: hurry with 20 credits.

Daintree & Longreach: change production to colony pods.

for both

**Maniac** · February 21, 2004, 15:00

Originally posted by GeoModder
Forget this, let that crawler bring minerals to Apolyton, and switch that Zetaris mine then to the NW forest of Zetaris base screen.

Ok.

Production of the RecCom is a bit slower, but the base grows again and the facility will be finished in time to avoid drones.

Zetaris still continuing rec commons was an oversight of mine.

As you pointed out a while ago, Zetaris doesn't need a rec commons under FM with 20% psych. So in the poll I posted the previous turn I put a crawler instead of a rec commons in as an option, and that won. So I'll change it to that this turn.

I would let them produce all the plasma steel garrison we need first. perhaps even a lot for CC later.

Ok.

That base has no need for a former ATM, 18 turns for growth.

Caboolture isn't connected yet by road to the other PUT bases. A former could do so.

Also, still no transport available for moving units from Caboolture to the main PUT land.

Caboolture is on the main PUT continent.

I suggest Research Hospital, and then a former.
Think about it, PUT is our researcher now, and with your FM proposal, CC won't research anything the next 8 turns. And perhaps we lose that drone there then.

Good suggestion for a research hospital.

Though without any credit investments in the project it would take 11 years to finish it. Therefore I'd suggest we only start production on it if we have enough credits to hurry it immediately. If we let the Consciousness go 80% economy, we should get the necessary amount of cash soon though.

**GeoModder** · February 24, 2004, 18:25

Tentative IAF production proposals for CyCon

- Boolean Bay: SP NG

- DBTSverse Portal: Seaformer
- Logic Loop: Supply Crawler, Command Center or Aerospace Complex. I'll gues a poll will come out of this
- Pi Square: Hurry crawler production, costs 7 or 8 energy
- Triplex: start with Plasma Garrison (side note, why not building Trance Plasma Garrisons? Costs are the same).
- Zetaris: 1 mineral will be lost by changing production to crawler
- Calico: Trance Scout
- Abort Retry Fail(ed): Command Center or Recreation Commons.
- Binary Bastion: Hurry production, will cost 18 energy I think.
- And/Or Gate: Research Hospital, in combination with that rover on 84,58 to 81,57 (pod popping). If no production finish, switch to colony pod.

Some unit movements:

- And/Or former to 81, 65. Start road building
- Former on 69,71 moves to 70,66. Assist mine construction. Alternative is going to DBTSverse Portal for assisting the former there.
- DBTSverse Portal former to 72,65. Start a road.
- Logic Loop crawler to 67,73. Harvest minerals from that forest.

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