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**Drogue** · October 13, 2003, 17:20

I thought the last two were needed. We want to explain that we haven't broken the rules.

**DeathByTheSword** · October 13, 2003, 17:50

put in the incompentent part about drogue and me...that will do wonders

**Maniac** · October 13, 2003, 18:03

Alas, I just sent it, the Drogue version.

**Drogue** · October 13, 2003, 18:06

That's fine. The fun version was a little far IMHO. Though would have been nice to see how he reacted to it!

**Corellion** · October 13, 2003, 18:11

Indeed.

The reason I thought we should nix the last two sentences, is that we don't want them thinking we've gone through enough planning for this to know definitively whether or not we actually did cheat. We want to pretend we're asking Googlie if we cheated, so it seems more innocent for the rest of us.

**Drogue** · October 13, 2003, 18:16

It's pretty quick to check, and it would explain not giving an answer while online for 3 hours - we were chatting to Googlie about the rules

**Maniac** · October 13, 2003, 18:18

Flubber's PM I just received:

Your teams actions have crossed the line into what I call cheating. I believe none of what you just said.

You thought we GIFTED you doc ini ?? LOL

Good day

Though PEACE is among the worst pact mates imaginable, I do think we may have taken things a little too far... Chaunk just told me he's leaving the Consciousness because of our recent dealings with PEACE...

**Corellion** · October 13, 2003, 18:24

!? He should have voiced his opinion... I thought we were all in agreement.

I at least think we're roleplaying properly. Googlie has ruled it within limits... and we don't care about petty emotional foibles. If I or anybody else are bringing anybody to an ethical dilemma, feel free to bring it up. We can't evaluate our actions if those who don't agree keep silent.

**Drogue** · October 13, 2003, 18:43

I thought we were all in agreement too. It is a pity about Chaunk, but Corellion is correct. What we did was in character and in the rules. And yes, if anyone has any problem, please bring it up.

Maniac: I suggest PMing him back saying:

What you believe is your business. However Googlie has told us that what we did was not cheating, and we stick by his decision. You offered it pre-accepted, without any agreement on ourside. That was your decision. Our factional ethos is supposed to be not caring about petty emotional foibles. If offered a tech, we accept it. Even counting this, and the fact that what we did did not break any rule, agreement, nor was against any unwritten rules we were aware of, we were going to wait for your reply as to why you had offered that. However Drogue did not. We are sorry about that, it was a mistake. Believe what you will, but we did not cheat.

I don't think we crossed the line at all. After them being that nasty to us, from accusing us of malicious intent in real-life, to insulting us directly, all of which are far more serious than an in game incident, I feel no remorse at all for what we did. We had not even thought of it before they decided to offer it pre-accepted. They should not do that unless they trusted us. And if they did, then sorry, they trusted the wrong faction. By doing that, they put the ball in our court, to act as we feel. Admittedly maybe we shouldn't have lied to them, but stealing the tech was an in game incident that broke no rule. I don't see that as anything wrong at all. And they have lied right the way through this game, so I don't feel bad for lying to get what we wanted too. We're the ones without the emotional foibles, yet they have done things worse, IMHO. I do not feel at all bad about what we did.

**Corellion** · October 13, 2003, 18:50

I agree, but still, Chaunk at least felt it crossed the line.

**Corellion** · October 13, 2003, 18:54

I'd normally suggest toning down the PM to be more diplomatic, but at this point I guess there really isn't much point. Besides, we are personally offended here too... if it comes up as a point of contention, we can say that we were angry at the direct insult (which we, or at least I, are). So, I guess you can send it off as-is.

Actually, we may even want to keep it as undiplomatic as possible... it will give us some justification for witholding HEC when we get it.

**Drogue** · October 13, 2003, 19:00

Actually. I would add a little on the end, saying:

Indeed, we did ask what you would like in place, to make up for the fact, and do a trade with Doc Ini. However you ignored that and decided to direct your anger at us because we did something you found morally questionable. As you now obviously wish to end diplomactic relations, there is now no reason for us to honour this. I believe it's called shooting yourself in the foot.

Maybe 2 sentances are going too far? It is true though, we did offer to repay them, and they ignored it.

**Corellion** · October 13, 2003, 19:02

That sounds good... and will certainly not put us in any better standing with them.

**Drogue** · October 13, 2003, 19:02

Since Maniac and DBTS are offline, either I have to word it so that I can still be the rebel and send it myself, or Corellion has to send it. Or we wait until tomorrow. Which is best?

**Drogue** · October 13, 2003, 19:24

Ok here is the PM I intend to send, while remaining the rebel:

Flubber,

Maniac has posted a copy of your latest PM on our forum.

Your teams actions have crossed the line into what I call cheating. I believe none of what you just said.

What you believe is your business. However Googlie has told us that what we did was not cheating, and we stick by his decision. You offered it pre-accepted, without any agreement on our side. That was your decision. Our factional ethos is not caring about petty emotional foibles. If offered a tech, we accept it. Even counting this, and the fact that what we did not break any rule, agreement, nor was against any unwritten rules we were aware of, the faction was going to wait for your reply as to why you had offered that. I did not, because I do not see why because you decide to pre-accept a tech to us that we should delay our turn, and I had to go out for the rest of the day, and so it may well have gone over our 48 hours if I had not played. Believe what you will, but we did not cheat. There was no rule against this decided at the start, nor did we know of any ‘unwritten rule’ against it, being that we are all DG players, and have played very few PBEMs. Pre-accepting a tech is accepting to the deal that is on the table. If you did not accept it as is, then you should not have accepted it IMHO.

You thought we GIFTED you doc ini ?? LOL

We did not know. It was certainly a possibility, one pactmate gifting a tech to another just before they complete it, so we could give you HEC at a much sooner date. However we did not know, and when we do not know, we go with our factional ethos and choose what we think is in the best interest of our faction, while staying within the rules.

Furthermore, we did ask what you would like in place, to make up for the fact that we had taken Doc Ini, and do a trade. However you ignored that and decided to direct your anger at us because we did something you found morally questionable. As you now obviously wish to end diplomatic relations, there is now no reason for us to honour this. I believe it's called shooting yourself in the foot.

Suspended Prime Function Drogue Beta-8

Is the last part, about shooting yourself in the foot, too harsh? Also, does the sentance before about not honouring it tell them too much?

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