PEACE diplomatic exchanges

[DeathByTheSword]

i like the devillish thoughs the Consciousness has

[Corellion]

This is going to make for very interesting reading if the private fora ever become public.

[Phenix]

Seems good ,

although i fear Flubber will believe pretty much nothing what we say at the moment

[Drogue]

He is welcome to believe what he wants. I'm more concerned about what he'll say to the Hive and to the Drones, whome we need to ally with. If we have enough plausable reasons, then we have a defense, if they decide to bad-mouth us. I couldn't give a flying **** what Flubber thinks, since they won't be around too long, but the others do matter.

[Maniac]

Most recent PM. I'll tell my opinion later...

I hope this was a miscommunication

Maniac

I believe the following events have occurred

1. We offered doc ini in the commlinls with a message to look for communication from me. as to terms.

2. I sent a PM to DBTS on Oct9 outlining some preliminary ideas as to terms with the hoped of negotaiating a deal

3. You Pmed me inquiring what the doc ini offer was about in a PM indicating you were ending our pact

4. I am informed your faction ACCEPTED DOC INI.

5. Nobody in our faction seems to have received any communication as to your offers for this. Your communication to me indicated DBTS was away.



IS any of the foregoing in error ??

THis is not roleplaying. In any PBEM I have played, I often pre-accept offers in the diplobox so that the game mechanics are not an impediment to trade and the deal can be accomplished withinn the game once terms are settles by email or pm. Its ALWAYS understood that you can't just accept the tech. In fact it would be a cheat or a foul to do so, regardless of diplomatic status, unless you knew the tech was a gift. You definitely knew the tech was not a gift . . .

I am hoping that I am misinformed or there was some mixup that you can explain. Please advise

Flubber

[Drogue]

Send the PM I had above, in your own words. Also say we did not 'know' the tech was not a gift. What else where we to assume when we had no communication regarding it? Then go into the bit about me not wanting to wait on our turn for PEACE, so just playing and hoping it is worked out later. We did not think it was to be worked out before acceptance, as we had not received communication and did not expect you to think it could all be worked out within the 48 hours of our turn.

Then say that "it is not 'always' understood, since we did not understand it. If you offer a tech, pre-accepted, then you expect it to be taken. I am sorry if we misunderstood your intention, but the rules we agreed for this DG did not state anything about not accepting pre-accepted techs in the diplomacy box."

Or something like that.

[Corellion]

Indeed.

BTW, if anybody was against hostile relations with PEACE, it's too late now.

Sounds good, though I doubt it will affect anything in the slightest. This is the point where both of us know what is going on (just not necessarily specifics), but we have to keep up friendly communications. Something tells me that not just PEACE, but the members of PEACE, especially Flubber, will have a grudge against us for a LONG time.

[DeathByTheSword]

just tell them because we almost finished ini they help us by giving it to us so that we could research HEC to give to them very soon

[Corellion]

Does anybody ever feel a little bad about lying to the Pirates like this?

...
...
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Because I don't.

[Maniac]

Do not say we're willing to give them tech, let them think we'll still repay them with HEC.

But then they'll know next turn already we don't plan to pay them back. If we say we are in doubt to pay HEC but only Biogen because of them obtaining AppPhys, we could make them believe a little bit longer we intend to pay them back.

As to Flubber's expected complaint we are cheating, he has a point of course... (Though on the other side I believe there are precedents where players accidentally offered something in the diplobox, the other player accepted it, and there was no problem - the first player just had to be more careful, or should have contacted the other player earlier. IIRC here too PEACE only contacted us again shortly before receiving our turn, probably hoping to rush a deal again in 48 hours. ) Anyway, now the dice has been rolled, we'll have to keep up the story, and when they officially say we have cheated, count on Googlie to repeat as he assured us we have not broken any agreed upon game rule.

Anyway, how about a PM like below. Tongue firmly in cheek of course... Tell me if I'm overexaggerating...

Hi Flubber,

The whole situation with DBTS not announcing the official PMs he receives and Drogue accepting Doc:Ini just like that is all a big unintended mess. In the second half of September, while I was External Affairs Function and at the same time more or less the acting Prime Function/Turn Player I could coordinate the foreign negotiations and the turn playing perfectly. But now Drogue is back, DBTS EAF, and I - having the ACPSG in mind - voluntarily moved to the less active position of second function, things are more or less in chaos. Coordination is lacking severely. If you ask me, Drogue and DBTS are simply incompetent. As told before, DBTS - though of course he isn't the most active member - simply didn't tell he had received a PM from you. I sent you a PM myself as Second Function, but alas too late: soon after Drogue played the turn. Drogue, being the most fervent anti-pact supporter, explained it a few hours later to me as "I didn't want to delay our turn for PEACE again." While the Prime Function is able to play when he wishes, he was going against our constitution by going against the opinion of some members who wanted to wait for an explanation from you. But be assured, I have sued him for a "disciplinary committee" and he has been temporarily removed as Prime Function. Despite this very unfortunate acception of Doc:Ini, I'll make sure you'll get compensated for it soon. We are currently researching HEC, so the first part of our debts should be paid back in the near future.

As for the matter of pact severance, I frankly feel you do us injustice when you say we broke the pact easily, and when you depict us again as the bad guys and you as the perfect pactmate As I told before, the feeling among the Consciousness majority is they did not like being played off against other factions, and did not like the way deals were brokered between us. The decision was more for the sake of our stress than for in-game reasons. I do not think we broke Pact easily, we have had a rocky relationship since the start, and it was becoming more and more untenable. As you said, you have not felt like pactmates either for a long time. With us both feeling like that, it seemed that the most logical decision was to cut our losses and reduce to a treaty. I voted against breaking the pact, but I understand the reason why other voted in favour of the action.

Greetings,

Maniac

Edit: Wow! Many comments while writing this PM. I'll see if I can work them into the PM. It's already volumous though...

[Corellion]

Maybe tone it down a bit. It seems almost too sickly sweet.

[Maniac]

I presumed my PM would be too exaggerating... But I had fun writing it. Anyway, a literal copy of Drogue's PM then, with the additions he mentioned in his latest post? :

***

Hi Flubber,

It was not "our plan all along". As I stated in my PM, we wanted to be Pactmates, and to hold it together. However we did not like being played off against other factions, and did not like the way deals were brokered between us. The decision was more for the sake of our stress than for in-game reasons. I do not think we broke Pact easily: we have had a rocky relationship since the start, and it was becoming more and more untenable. As you said, you have not felt like pactmates either for a long time. With us both feeling like that, it seemed that the most logical decision was to cut our losses and reduce to a treaty.

While you had no notice of DBTS's inactivity, we did mention it when apologizing for the last mix-up regarding tech choice, due to DBTS not being the most active member of our forum. He posts occasionally at the moment, however we hope he will soon be back to his old active self. What this led too, was us having the turn without knowing of the PM from you. I PMed you to find out. However Drogue, as Prime Function, stated that he "would not delay our turn for PEACE again". While the Prime Function is able to play when he wishes, he was going against our constitution by going against the opinion of the masses who wanted to wait for an explanation from PEACE. Therefore he has been temporarily removed as Prime Function and has been put before a disciplinary committee. We are sorry for his actions. We are currently researching HEC, and will transmit to you when completed.

That does not mean however that Drogue cheated by accepting Doc:Ini. He did not know the tech was not a gift. What else was he to assume when we had no communication regarding it? As I told in the previous paragraph, Drogue didn't want to stall our turn again, so he just played and hoped it would be worked out later. He did not think it was to be worked out before acceptance, as we had not received communication and did not expect you to think it could all be worked out within the 48 hours of our turn.
It is not 'always' understood that pre-accepted techs shouldn't be accepted, since we did not understand it automatically. That may have to do with there not being any PBEM veterans in our team. As far as I know, if you offer a tech, pre-accepted, then you expect it to be taken. I am sorry if we misunderstood your intention, but the rules we agreed for this DG did not state anything about not accepting pre-accepted techs in the diplomacy box. (Should we include these two last sentences? )

Friendly greetings,

Second Function Mani Alpha-3

[Drogue]

That is great. I think the last two sentances work great, and much better than I had put it. I like your first one two (especially the bit about my incompetance ) but the 2nd is probably better from a game point of view.

Flubber just PMed me to ask for an explanation, so send it ASAP please. He's getting suspicious

[Drogue]

Actually, Maniac, you've forgot to mention recompenses for Doc Ini. At the bottom of paragraph 2 it says

We are sorry for his actions. We are currently researching HEC, and will transmit to you when completed.

whereas it might be better as

We are sorry for his actions. What would you like in recompense? We are currently researching HEC, and will transmit to you when completed to complete the last deal.

[Corellion]

Though they're good, I say nix the last two sentences, then send it off ASAP.