Ceasefire!

[FlameFlash]

Proposed message to the Hive via Arnelos:

Dear Friends in the Hive:

It has come to our attention that PEACE has been viewed as a satelite faction of the Hive.

While logical, this has also jepordized PEACE's ability to effectively conduct the ceasefire negotiations as CPU feels we are simply subserviant to the Hive.

We have greatly appreciated all the support the Hive has granted us, but must stress that while we really wish to maintain our pact, we must remain neutral in the conflict, if it comes, and request kindly to not be a launch point against CPU otherwise.

This is simply to protect ourselves from further misunderstandings that PEACE are direct partners of the Hive.

Thank you, and we wish you luck in whatever you finally choose to do.

Cap'n Ceasefire Ambassador FlameFlash of PEACE

[foolish_icarus]

hmmm. Not sure about that last message. It's the cycon we have to convince, not the hive.

[Trithemius]

Originally posted by foolish_icarus
hmmm. Not sure about that last message. It's the cycon we have to convince, not the hive.

It is not always good to rely upon a single, more powerful, state as one's sole support; at least so says Machiavelli.

Can we really rely upon the Hive to put PEACE interests first? If the Cybernetic Consciousness is prepared to pay us enough so that we will receive back into our good graces the perhaps it is time that the Hive-PEACE relationship was reexamined?

I do not propose cooling off Hive-PEACE relations, but we must be aware that Hive is, ultimately, concerned with Hive objectives and these may not always be congruent with PEACE objectives. If the Consciousness wants to make a deal then our objective should be getting as much as we can out of them and restoring positive relations.

An aside: Is there any serious Drone-PEACE relationship? Should we pursue one?

[Trithemius]

Originally posted by FlameFlash
Proposed message to the Hive via Arnelos:

...We have greatly appreciated all the support the Hive has granted us, but must stress that while we really wish to maintain our pact, we must remain neutral in the conflict, if it comes, and request kindly to not be a launch point against CPU otherwise.

I think it is more important to stress that "we must appear to remain neutral in the conflict, if it comes". That way the Human Hive should be persuaded that we are still somehow useful to them if their long-term plans do involve military action against the Cybernetic Consciousness. I am not sure we can discount the possibility that it does, especially since the Hive seems keen to irritate and provoke the Consciousness lately. It would not be good for PEACE if our sole purpose to the Hive was a chump blocker to be used as a pretext for war (unless some of my fellow pirates would prefer us to be this game's version of Poland?).

A possible situation would be to have both the Hive and the Consciousness bidding for our favour in order to use us as launching-point for a future offensive. Perhaps we could consider this as policy - it might seem a bit two-faced and shifty but we are pirates after all and it is not all rum and parrots

[FlameFlash]

While I like your line of thinking Trithemius, the pitting two factions against one another is what the CPU claims started the war in the first place, I still totally question that, but the last thing we want is to prove them correct.

What I'm trying to do though, Foolish, is get talks open with the Hive as far as being privvy to their plans. Our survival seems to be tossed in with them and CPU and if we can't get those two to get along at this juncture we're probably screwed.

[foolish_icarus]

Originally posted by Trithemius
It is not always good to rely upon a single, more powerful, state as one's sole support; at least so says Machiavelli.

No of course not. I don't trust the Hive and I don't trust Cycon. We are most definitely getting played--but we don't need to make a fuss about it at the moment--there is a time for being meek with one's allies.

We are needed neither by the Hive nor the Cycon except as perhaps a feel-good issue for the Hive. We have no military significance, and apparently, little diplomatic significance. Being a pawn will get us nowhere. We tried an alliance with the Cycon. It didn't work. We tried being treaty-bound trading parties with the Cycon--less than a success. Hell, they can't even maintain a truce for more than about, oh, zero turns!

My piece o' eight is on sticking with the Hive--be a bargaining chip for as long as necessary, then, with a not insignificant amount of luck, actually build ourselves into a faction again, to the point where we can play a rule in the balance of power.


On another note, I interpreted Buster's message in the turn tracking thread to mean the Drones declared war--is this correct?

[Trithemius]

Originally posted by FlameFlash
While I like your line of thinking Trithemius, the pitting two factions against one another is what the CPU claims started the war in the first place, I still totally question that, but the last thing we want is to prove them correct.

It seems to me that if [i]anyone[i] deliberatly started this recent problem, it was the Human Hive. How far can we really trust them, especially now their role in helping the Consciousness' attacks on PEACE has come to light?

What I'm trying to do though, Foolish, is get talks open with the Hive as far as being privvy to their plans. Our survival seems to be tossed in with them and CPU and if we can't get those two to get along at this juncture we're probably screwed.

I think we need to, at least in the CPU's mind, divorce ourselves from the Hive, while still remaining as friendly as is possible with the Hive. We don't need to cause a war, we can just exploit the inevitable "Cold War" that will occur between two "super-power" factions.

Can we make some kind of agreement with the Drones, or are they "going it alone"?

[foolish_icarus]

Originally posted by FlameFlash
What I'm trying to do though, Foolish, is get talks open with the Hive as far as being privvy to their plans. Our survival seems to be tossed in with them and CPU and if we can't get those two to get along at this juncture we're probably screwed.

Gotcha

[foolish_icarus]

Originally posted by Trithemius
It seems to me that if [i]anyone[i] deliberatly started this recent problem, it was the Human Hive. How far can we really trust them, especially now their role in helping the Consciousness' attacks on PEACE has come to light?

It was pretty much all Cycon, near as I can tell. We now know the Hive played an auxiliary role, but the Cycon had plans and would have gone ahead with them even if the Hive had stayed completely out of it.

I think we need to, at least in the CPU's mind, divorce ourselves from the Hive, while still remaining as friendly as is possible with the Hive. We don't need to cause a war, we can just exploit the inevitable "Cold War" that will occur between two "super-power" factions.

Possible, but the Cycon has said it would like to ally with the Hive. The Hive and Drones are going for cooperative victory (so they've said) and who is the most logical third partner, if there will be one? Not us I think we don't really want there to be a balance of power, because that means when it fails, we are the first target for the other powers to pick up resources and strength.

Can we make some kind of agreement with the Drones, or are they "going it alone"?

Dunno. They've been pretty isolationist--though as i've asked, that might have changed.

[FlameFlash]

To that end... suggestions on a better wording of a message to the Hive... especially with Buster's recent post in the turn tracking thread making me nervous, might be wise.

[Trithemius]

Originally posted by foolish_icarus
No of course not. I don't trust the Hive and I don't trust Cycon. We are most definitely getting played--but we don't need to make a fuss about it at the moment--there is a time for being meek with one's allies.

I'm definately against making a fuss, I was just concerned that this aspect might not be being considered by PEACE policy-makers. Since we (I am told) operate on democratic principles I thought it best to get the issue "out there" so that, come voting-time, people are informed on the matter. No implications of incompetence or lack of vision were implied in any of the other captains. (Honest! )

We are needed neither by the Hive nor the Cycon except as perhaps a feel-good issue for the Hive. We have no military significance, and apparently, little diplomatic significance. Being a pawn will get us nowhere. We tried an alliance with the Cycon. It didn't work. We tried being treaty-bound trading parties with the Cycon--less than a success. Hell, they can't even maintain a truce for more than about, oh, zero turns!

Well, the Hive thinks we are important for something. Its possible that it is just charity, but I am suspicious. The Datalinks say "Never attribute to malice what can more easily be attributed to stupidity.", but I also don't think it is wise to assume that anyone is stupid, whether they are enemies or erstwhile allies.

I think we have to sell ourselves to anyone and everyone. That way we can get the aid flowing in and start rebuilding. We don't have much to offer now, but a few turns down the track we could be back in business and offering an ally tech or our naval expertise.

My piece o' eight is on sticking with the Hive--be a bargaining chip for as long as necessary, then, with a not insignificant amount of luck, actually build ourselves into a faction again, to the point where we can play a rule in the balance of power.

Certainly stick with the Hive, we need to get all we can from them and they may turn out to be the best (and only) friends PEACE has. However, I see no real harm in persuading CPU that we might be able to be bought. We can always fall back on "Well, the Hive have been more consistently helpful." if they claim we stiffed them (besides, from what I read in the PEACE Archives, they deserve a stiffing).

On another note, I interpreted Buster's message in the turn tracking thread to mean the Drones declared war--is this correct?

A really interesting development! Has anyone asked the Drone's INternational Industrial Relations Officer (or whatever their diplomatic person is called..) what the story is; or should I appoint myself Political Attache to the Free Drones?

[Trithemius]

Originally posted by foolish_icarus Possible, but the Cycon has said it would like to ally with the Hive. The Hive and Drones are going for cooperative victory (so they've said) and who is the most logical third partner, if there will be one? Not us I think we don't really want there to be a balance of power, because that means when it fails, we are the first target for the other powers to pick up resources and strength.

I get the impression that the Hive might not want to ally with the Consciousness; why else would they be provoking them now? I have tried to explain this to the Consciousness (via Impaler in IRC - as people might have read) but they seem optimistic about the Hive making friends.

Dunno. They've been pretty isolationist--though as i've asked, that might have changed.

Aw, you beat me to it.

[FlameFlash]

Actually, if you'd like to PM Buster for clarification on his post, and then post his response here that would be appreciated.

[foolish_icarus]

To that end... suggestions on a better wording of a message to the Hive... especially with Buster's recent post in the turn tracking thread making me nervous, might be wise.

I don't know...postpone it?

Since we (I am told) operate on democratic principles I thought it best to get the issue "out there" so that, come voting-time, people are informed on the matter. No implications of incompetence or lack of vision were implied in any of the other captains. (Honest! )

Of course. The more discussion the better.

I think we have to sell ourselves to anyone and everyone. That way we can get the aid flowing in and start rebuilding. We don't have much to offer now, but a few turns down the track we could be back in business and offering an ally tech or our naval expertise.

I agree in principle, except that we have no techs nor naval expertise.

However, I see no real harm in persuading CPU that we might be able to be bought. We can always fall back on "Well, the Hive have been more consistently helpful." if they claim we stiffed them (besides, from what I read in the PEACE Archives, they deserve a stiffing).

They deserve oh-so-more than a painful stiffing. But they are violent and erratic and will respond without warning with force if provoked in the slighest (or even nonexistent) way. "Justice" plays no part in their decisions. Perhaps more importantly, we need to discourage the cycon's idea that things can be "paid for" and "smoothed over". Without being provocative to them, we need to circulate the subconscious inclination to avoid force as a solution. They've gotten away with it this far, we should not encourage them.

or should I appoint myself Political Attache to the Free Drones?

Go for it.*


*Bear in mind that I have no authority whatsoever and this is not an offical endorsement or authorization of any sort. But we're pretty informal, you could probably get away with just doing it.

[foolish_icarus]

Originally posted by Trithemius

I get the impression that the Hive might not want to ally with the Consciousness; why else would they be provoking them now? I have tried to explain this to the Consciousness (via Impaler in IRC - as people might have read) but they seem optimistic about the Hive making friends.

I suspect they would join them in a heartbeat if they thought they could remain the dominant partner. Mind you, it wouldn't last, but I suspect that wouldn't stop them from trying. And poor PEACE gets left by the wayside...at best.

But enough gloomy sentiments! As you've said, we do have a real opportunity hear. Just three turns ago we thought it was all over (in addition to multiple times previous to that). Now what I really want to do (making no claims about its viability) is retire to our corner of the globe and build up. Let the others fight and wrangle while we wait--repairing in a sheltered cove, if you will, and sail when the time is right. We have a substantial blood debt to pay back.