Ceasefire!

[FlameFlash]

Possible response:

Subject: PEACE talks

Can't help it... I like the name, it's stuck...

Anyway, it's looking like the demilitarized zone is being favorably discussed on our end (can't say Hive or others will accept it, however.

There is an issue, and further difficulty with the 16 tiles of separation as the way to make this process go the fastest would require not only a disbanding of crossbone way but also of Calico Island so that Fossil Field Ridge can be settled as per Pirate special abilities.

Likewise, we hope that the straight between Bone and Yardarm Islands can be added to the DMZ simply as that would otherwise allow an easy in/out for agressive units.

Until Crossbone Way is disbanded, however, we do ask permission to retrieve with transports not only the crawlers that would otherwise be stranded in your territory but everything that is still with Crossbone Way... this means we will need at least time enough for three trips from a transport ship.

We will, of course, rearrange as much as possible, workers on the next round to halt further groth at Crossbone.

FF

[Makahlua]

Whoops sorry I was on a quick cruise through earlier :/ But that looks good to me Anyone else out there and listening?

[johndmuller]

Well, this does all seem fairly unlikely considering how long it will take us to do all that stuff, especially if we need to go beyond Bones Island. It is also somewhat hard to believe that the CyCon will be content to sit around and consolidate (after all, we did all the development work in our former territory already); perhaps they will content themselves with fighting the DataAngels for a while, but their whole PUT workforce hasn't had any part of this so far, and presumably they are in a position to expand into that same area we aretalking about heading for.

Getting Yardarm demilitarized would be a good idea, although I suspect that will be a hard sell with the CyCon, especially as we have gotten a start on terraforming it already and the forest will be spreading over time (plus that former won'thave anything to do for a long time except more terraforming - planting fungus anyone?).

On the other front, I think it improbable that we could capture Conshelf 57 without it going away. I don't know exactly how that stuff works, but my operational theory is that the base pop goes down 1 when the last unit is taken and when the base changes hands unless the base's pop-growth box would overflow when it is shrunk to the new size, which does not seem to be the case here for either event (Note: this is only a working hypothesis for how this works, not by any means tried and true.. It is also possible that we won't be able to hold it once we get it.

So much for the negativity.

On the western front, we may be able to take Conshelf 57 without it going away and may, with Hive/Drone help (as in free units/money), be able to keep it long enough to establish ourselves on some of the unoccupied territory further west of the DAs, like a seabase at (7,39), for example (although that is also getting close on the PUT side of things), or else somehow get a foothold on the DA mainland. Unless someone knows that this will not work for sure, we might as well try it, since we are so close anyway.

Unless we can get a Cruiser transport (and I don't think we can get one without a seaport), there is no way around the length of time it will take us to move from Xbones to the north, and all the logistics are unpleasant, the speed and capacity of our bootyboat being the main limiting factor.

It may be expedient to negotiate our building another base on Yardarm like at (58,40), (59,39) or (60,38) to facilitate our departure. A coastal base would enable us to receive a cruiser transport; sea colony pod or whatever from our allies. Or, we could build a sea colony pod and/or a faster/bigger transport and/or a seaformer, all of which would make it quicker for us to get out of there into a decent location (and meanwhile give the Former something productive to do). If Yardarm is to later end up in PUT/Borg hands instead of becoming another DMZ, all our transitional improvements would be later beneficial to them, perhaps sweetening the pot somewhat.

If we do not need to go far, there are several decent sites just across the straits, for example (53,35) for a land base, and/or (52,30) or (58,22). If we want to really get lost, we could go up to (45,3). For a sea base(47,23), (45,29) or (40,22) might be OK, (although a bit distant and/or inconvenient) sites, but it would of course take a while to build a sea colony pod.

Another negotiation point that you touched on are the 2 remaining formers; if they take them out too soon, it will severely impact out ability to produce anything - in fact with our current build, we would have to delete a unit just to have zero min production. Ideally we would retain their production til we are ready to go bye-bye. If they are going to take one or both of them, we should probably switch our current build to a crawler to boost our mineral income.

[FlameFlash]

Can't help it... I like the name, it's stuck...

Anyway, it's looking like the demilitarized zone is being favorably discussed on our end (can't say Hive or others will accept it, however.)

There is an issue, and further difficulty with the 16 tiles of separation as the way to make this process go the fastest would require not only a disbanding of crossbone way but also of Calico Island so that Fossil Field Ridge can be settled as per Pirate special abilities.

Likewise, we hope that the straight between Bone and Yardarm Islands can be added to the DMZ simply as that would otherwise allow an easy in/out for agressive units.

Until Crossbone Way is disbanded, however, we do ask permission to retrieve with transports not only the crawlers that would otherwise be stranded in your territory but everything that is still with Crossbone Way... this means we will need at least time enough for three trips from a transport ship.

We will, of course, rearrange as much as possible, workers on the next round to halt further groth at Crossbone.

There may, however, be a need to simply create a coastal base farther north to facilitate our moving out completly.

This is simply a message to let you know about some of the thoughts bouncing around while none of the comments are overly official as we're still in planning stages/opening negotiations.

FF

Note the message that everything is still up in the air and not official... that will give us an 'out' if something doesn't pan out later.

[Hercules]

If Conshelf57 evaporates on turn 2159 we are down to one base X Bone on Yardarm. If, then an assault is launched on PUT that is going to jeapordise us. Just a thought.

[foolish_icarus]

I really don't like abandoning Crossbone Way--Especially giving it up to the borgs. This may seem petty, but if we set a precedent of giving up stuff whenever they threaten to destroy us, where does that get us? The way I see it, the only way this treaty is going to be feasible is if whatever resolution we come to, its binding . If we start giving in to them, we lose our moral standing, and admit as much to the other factions.

They have shown themselves not just willing but eager to attack at the slightest provocation. If they desire or fear something, they will swoop down on us before you can say "The Sorrow of Tripoli". If we wish to attain any bit of security, they have to agree explicitly and completely that they will not wage war against us or mind control us or anyhting like that, no exceptions or loopholes.

Because if we make peace now, without establishing in any way that what they did was wrong, they will know they can get away with it. And what will that have accomplished? Just us spending blood and salt to build up some nice bases for them to invade again. They may yet hold the saber over our heads, but we're not beholden to them, and if they can't accept and agree to that, I say lbetter to go down now, with honor, than wait in fear only to be twice-duped groveling dogs sometime later.

[FlameFlash]

This just in:

Hi FlameFlash,

I just wanted to let you know that yesterday I've posted your messages in the revived "PEACE diplomatic exchanges" thread, but unfortunately no one has commented yet. I'll post a few proposals myself and if no one objects I'll try to send them to you this evening.

Greetings,

Maniac

My response:

Many thanks for the update. Commentary is running strong on my side here... just waiting for feedback from your side now.

[FlameFlash]

Originally posted by foolish_icarus
I really don't like abandoning Crossbone Way--Especially giving it up to the borgs. This may seem petty, but if we set a precedent of giving up stuff whenever they threaten to destroy us, where does that get us? The way I see it, the only way this treaty is going to be feasible is if whatever resolution we come to, its binding . If we start giving in to them, we lose our moral standing, and admit as much to the other factions.

That's where pushing for Yardarm to be part of the demilitarized zone would come in handy. If they insist on our leaving it, then we might as well insist that it be part of the buffer zone between our two factions.

They have shown themselves not just willing but eager to attack at the slightest provocation. If they desire or fear something, they will swoop down on us before you can say "The Sorrow of Tripoli". If we wish to attain any bit of security, they have to agree explicitly and completely that they will not wage war against us or mind control us or anyhting like that, no exceptions or loopholes.

I thought that's what the ceasefire currently did. If they were to break it so obviously Hive at the very least and probably the Drones would attack nice and quickly. While not much (and certainly wouldn't help us) I think that's what is holding them off right now.

Because if we make peace now, without establishing in any way that what they did was wrong, they will know they can get away with it. And what will that have accomplished? Just us spending blood and salt to build up some nice bases for them to invade again. They may yet hold the saber over our heads, but we're not beholden to them, and if they can't accept and agree to that, I say lbetter to go down now, with honor, than wait in fear only to be twice-duped groveling dogs sometime later.

I'm thinking that after this (and there's some kind of standing agreement for us possibly to have to be the agressors) we should just respectfully tell them that we're no longer willing to deal with them after the treaty is signed.

Let them listen to static over the com-line, besides the obligatory "I'm sorry, but Herc can't be reached at this time... if you'll please leave a message with the parrot, it will get the message to you as soon as possible... SQUACK!"

Or something...

/me shrugs.

[foolish_icarus]

I thought that's what the ceasefire currently did.

And that's what we thought the treaty did. I still think we need them to sign a public, explicit, and binding treaty.

[FlameFlash]

/me nods.

Though right now it doesn't matter much. As long as the ceasefire part is upheld by the CPU, for some reason they're not discussing the terms of the ceasefire currently (I believe Maniac) so that means we should begin reestablishing bases at Maki's proposed points ASAP and getting the crawlers to safety but for now leave Crossbone alone or relocate it to the northern shore of yardarm.

[FlameFlash]

From the CPU!:

Hi FlameFlash,

Discussion has started rolling on your latest proposal. Nothing is definite yet, but here are already a few first thoughts and questions:

On 3: A map would really be helpful here

I've made one, and if it gets approval of the Collective and Central Processing Unit, I'll send it to you.

There is an issue, and further difficulty with the 16 tiles of separation as the way to make this process go the fastest would require not only a disbanding of crossbone way but also of Calico Island so that Fossil Field Ridge can be settled as per Pirate special abilities.

If possible we wouldn't prefer a disbanding of Calico Island. I've had a further look at the map though, and with a 16 square seperation you wouldn't be able to found a base about anywhere. Therefore I've proposed to the Collective a decrease to about 10 squares of the no-base-zone between CPU and PEACE bases, so that you have more room to expand. I'll let you know how the discussions continue.
Btw, even if Calico would be disbanded, there would still be other bases close to the Fossil Field Ridge, so I don't know if you would feel comfortable there.
I have a question though. Why do you consider the Fossil Field Ridge important? It's all located on -1000m ocean, so you will only be able to terraform it after you get AdvEcoEng. And even then those tiles would only be as productive as normal sea shelf squares.

Until Crossbone Way is disbanded, however, we do ask permission to retrieve with transports not only the crawlers that would otherwise be stranded in your territory but everything that is still with Crossbone Way... this means we will need at least time enough for three trips from a transport ship.

That seems ok to me, though I would ask then if we could agree on some transport route that would not bring your transport too close to CPU bases.
I'd like to inform you though of a few alternative proposals flowing within CPU.
For example PEACE transferring control of the units on Yardlong Island to CPU control, and we then shipping them to you with a cruiser transport. That would probably go faster. (This is a very short summary of the proposal - I can elaborate if you want.)
Or for example after a CPU takeover of Crossbone Way PEACE transferring control of all units to CPU, and we compensating you with a sum of energy credits under the exchange price of 2 credits for each mineral the unit is worth. Then you'd get an instant sum of cash to use to boost a new PEACE, without needing to ship all your remaining units for several years over long distances, having to keep paying their support costs all the time.
Anyway, I'll let you know more about possible alternative and more concrete proposals as discussions continue.

There may, however, be a need to simply create a coastal base farther north to facilitate our moving out completly.

Could I ask why? Would it be possible instead to bring a transport to Longyard Island, and load the units that are waiting on the coast on the transport, without a new base for the transport to dock? I assume other CPUers would want any new base on Yardlong Island to be disbanded eventually too, so that would be a waste for you of a good CP.

Greetings,

Mani Alpha-3
Prime Function of the Cybernetic Consciousness
Representative for CPU
***
General Disclaimer to PEACE members: Please know that anything said in this message and everything done in-game is ACDG-related and in the role of a CPuer. I hope it won't have any negative influence on our opinion of each other outside of this game or in the future.

[FlameFlash]

Here's my standing, super noncommital response:

Many thanks on the update Mani Alpha-3

I've made one, and if it gets approval of the Collective and Central Processing Unit, I'll send it to you.

We'll await approval with open arms... may I suggest using PUT maps if there is too much worry about CyCon sector of CPU being revealed? I'm more interested in seeing exactly what territory CPU is wanting as a DMZ as opposed to seeing anything you have under your casings.

There is an issue, and further difficulty with the 16 tiles of separation as the way to make this process go the fastest would require not only a disbanding of crossbone way but also of Calico Island so that Fossil Field Ridge can be settled as per Pirate special abilities.

If possible we wouldn't prefer a disbanding of Calico Island. I've had a further look at the map though, and with a 16 square seperation you wouldn't be able to found a base about anywhere. Therefore I've proposed to the Collective a decrease to about 10 squares of the no-base-zone between CPU and PEACE bases, so that you have more room to expand. I'll let you know how the discussions continue.

10 seems much more reasonable and viable, though the rest of the cap'ns will have to make comment on it as well before anything is actually confirmed, just as you'll have to await discussions on your end.

Btw, even if Calico would be disbanded, there would still be other bases close to the Fossil Field Ridge, so I don't know if you would feel comfortable there.

I cannot speak for all the cap'ns but I have no hostile intentions toward the CPU at this juncture. PEACE will certainly benefit from peace more than war at this point, as should be obvious.

We also are hoping that these negotiations will reach a positive outcome for our two sectors (what is the CyCon designation within CPU?) and that being distant neighbors won't be much of a problem.

I have a question though. Why do you consider the Fossil Field Ridge important? It's all located on -1000m ocean, so you will only be able to terraform it after you get AdvEcoEng. And even then those tiles would only be as productive as normal sea shelf squares.

The pirate special I think plays a role in the push to have a sea base there, along with the fact that we would really like to return to the sea and it would be the easiest and fastest location for such a base.

Until Crossbone Way is disbanded, however, we do ask permission to retrieve with transports not only the crawlers that would otherwise be stranded in your territory but everything that is still with Crossbone Way... this means we will need at least time enough for three trips from a transport ship.

That seems ok to me, though I would ask then if we could agree on some transport route that would not bring your transport too close to CPU bases.

We'll certainly gladly alert CPU of when a transport begins entering the area so that you may set up bouy locators to guide our transport safely to the crawlers.

I'd like to inform you though of a few alternative proposals flowing within CPU.
For example PEACE transferring control of the units on Yardlong Island to CPU control, and we then shipping them to you with a cruiser transport. That would probably go faster. (This is a very short summary of the proposal - I can elaborate if you want.)
Or for example after a CPU takeover of Crossbone Way PEACE transferring control of all units to CPU, and we compensating you with a sum of energy credits under the exchange price of 2 credits for each mineral the unit is worth. Then you'd get an instant sum of cash to use to boost a new PEACE, without needing to ship all your remaining units for several years over long distances, having to keep paying their support costs all the time.
Anyway, I'll let you know more about possible alternative and more concrete proposals as discussions continue.

Both the PoE offer and the offered assistance in transporting the items would be appreciated but given the recent troubles between us and the fact that our parrots and pirate egos may not allow it we'll have to discuss that one further before I can go into any definate yes/no/maybe on the issue.

There may, however, be a need to simply create a coastal base farther north to facilitate our moving out completly.

Could I ask why? Would it be possible instead to bring a transport to Longyard Island, and load the units that are waiting on the coast on the transport, without a new base for the transport to dock? I assume other CPUers would want any new base on Yardlong Island to be disbanded eventually too, so that would be a waste for you of a good CP.

The thought among the Cap'ns is that it would get us into the sea that much faster, through which we could then get off of yardarm and out of crossbone way, along with the needed transport ships to carry ourselves completly out of the DMZ territory as quickly as possible. From my understanding of the discussion thus far Crossbone would effectively be moved temporarily to allow access to the sea. I'll have to confirm what the plan actually entails if that is a route CPU and PEACE settle upon for getting out of the DMZ.

Greetings,

Mani Alpha-3
Prime Function of the Cybernetic Consciousness
Representative for CPU
***
General Disclaimer to PEACE members: Please know that anything said in this message and everything done in-game is ACDG-related and in the role of a CPuer. I hope it won't have any negative influence on our opinion of each other outside of this game or in the future.

/me shrugs.

OOC: As a PEACE member I'd probably still like to shivver your timbers, but I understand exactly what you mean.

[foolish_icarus]

All sounds doable, but, and I'll stop saying this from now now on to avoid being run through , the meat of the treaty must be a public nonagression agreement with no loopholes.

[FlameFlash]

I'll be sure to make mention of that on the next communcation.

[FlameFlash]

Just arrived:

Hello, captain FlameFlash

Allow me to introduce myself, I'm negotiator and Military Affairs Function Geo Beta-2 of the CPU council.

Currently I'm the appointed spokesman for the ceasefire talks between our factions.

I am afraid I have to start these talks with a grief message. In concern with the Hive discovery of a unknown contagious planet virus, we investigated all vessels within our reach of presence with this virus. The schooner crew near Conshelf 57 showed signs of infections, thus we felt compelt to sterilize the whole unit since it was heading directly towards an inhabitated base. The good news is that the transport foil in the same area seemed not to be infected. Hive units are still under investigation on the moment, but CPU is more or less assured that the Hive is firm enough not to allow possible infected units return to harbour. But this must be discussed with the Hive.

CPU-council is at the moment in meeting on the sort of allowance to return to PEACE for the unfortunately necessary destruction of the schooner, again, this is also in convergence of the sort of agreements that can be reached with the Hive on the destruction of the colony pod. We are quite concerned about this.

That brings us to the topic of Crossbone Way.
Since PEACE does not have a second base anywhere, and since in the former proposals a return to sea of PEACE was asked, I propose the following:

Crossbone Way grows it's population to a level 2, builds a colony pod, and starts constructing a new one immediately.
This colony pod will found a new base somewhere north on the coast (I suggest on map grid 59.37), by then the production of Crossbone Way should be finished and the base thus dismantled.
In accordance to your wish of a return to sea, a sea colony pod can be constructed in the new base and used to found a new base on the northern side of the Fossil Field Ridge. That base should be, by CPU wishes, be the southernmost and closest base PEACE will have to CPU territory.
Utterly, when a new base is founded in the north, the PEACE base on Yardlong island should be dismantled as well.
As for the transport foil around Conshelf 57, for the moment we do not allow it in the Atlantis Ocean, perhaps in a few MY, when trust is regained between our factions, we can escort it in the northern part of that ocean. For now I suggest to move it to the northern peninsula of the isle where your former comrades found such a horrible death.

There is one more wish on behalf of the CPU. As long as any PEACE base is in existence on Yardlong island, we like to see the Pact between the Hive and PEACE be reduced to a Treaty.

I realize that the unfortunate destruction of your schooner does not do much to gain your trust at this time, but think of this:
We did not attack any further on any other PEACE unit this year, while we easily could have done so.

In the hope that the Hive will wisen up and answers positively at our communications with them, I conclude this message.

Geo Beta-2
Military Affairs Function and negotiator of the CPU