Combined diplomatic thread --Direction needed

[FlameFlash]

Now there's interesting ammo against them...

I'll formally complain that they have probably used these practices under your reasoning and want an investigation

(that was my formal complaint, he does raise an important question as to how and why our bases are falling at such a quick rate... besides the fact that they probably built up a military while pacted with us with their pact info...)

[Hercules]

I noticed that comment at the time. It was a response to a question I asked of Impalerwg's comment. (who has since gone remarkably quiet in the public forums)

But our essential downfall has been the lack of a 3 armour defense and or Doc: Loyalty or in some battles, a simple lack of units to defend that one extra battle.

Then it all becomes cumulative.

There is one battle I am uncertain about though.

After the Borg were informed of our accidental discovery of their invasion force, we moved our foil probe southward (as we were originally inclined to do anyway). However The Borg then knew we had a foil probe out there.

I don't think they would have discovered it and killed it but for that intelligence.
Its killing, probably would not have effected outcomes but it would have been interesting for our further decisions, if we could have probed them at that early stage.

[Makahlua]

Just dashed this off to HongHu:

Just wanted you to know where to spot us; we'll be skirting the DJ coastline, and hanging a turn around Conshelf 57 (or is that 59?) in about 4 turns. Our course may wiggle around a bit to throw off pursuit; we have a light escort with the colony transport, and the rest of the fleet is playing 'Bait' with the Borg cruisers

Anyway, we should be seeing you folks shortly; btw where are we supposed to park?

[Makahlua]

Response from Hong Hu:

RE: PEACE escape route
Hi Makahlua,

I have just looked at the turn. Your strategy sounds fine to the Hive. The only thing we may worry is that you need to make sure you are able to set up your new base before your other bases fall to the CCs.

Here's a post by Googliegod in Hive's forum.

quote:

Well, the technicalities in PBEMs dictate that PEACE has to self-destruct their last base, after evidence is presented that the CyCon can destroy it that turn. Colony pods in transit, or units away from the base are simultaneously eliminated.

Otherwise, if the CC do destroy the base, then the year flips over to the start of the next, and the Drones would lose their turn.

Agreed-upon procedure is for the self destruct, which must be requested by the CyCon - if PEACE try stalling, then either Tass or I take a midturn save from the Borgs and confirm that PEACE would be destroyed, then rule it so.

G.



What that means to me is that you need to really think how many turns you are sure your other bases would be able to last and make sure your colony pod reach a peaceful water before that. From your current direction of the colony pod it looks to me the area south of the Hive land would be a good place for you, however if you cannot reach there, please simply choose the best place under the situation.

I have managed to save about 50 ecs in this turn. Would that be helpful to you at all? Please let me know. I plan to post the turn 20 hours from now.

[Makahlua]

My response back:


Well, insofar as I know, they (CyCon) probably think the 'escape pod' is the one we have up on Yardarm Isle by a base they almost have control of. I think they only have one cruiser 'sport, and I can still see the invasion force on a different isle a good few turns by cruiser to the south.

A map for you:

(link)

Red stars are the 2 Cycon forces I can see - a lone cruiser in the north picking off the newer lightest defended bases; and the marine invasion fleet in the south. I've projected move ranges and turns, but that assumes for the southern fleet they won't stop to heal or will suffer light losses. We should have an Imapct defender finished prototyping by the time the invasion force arrives @ Pamplona, but I'm not counting my mindworms before they hatch ^^ That northern cruiser force may just sail in and park -or- they might head south to join the assault on Atlantis (furthest east colony); as I can't predict that, I made no projections.

White stars are the colony convoy headed for the hive
and we are going to use that pod for an inland base; we also have 2 unity rovers with the northern CP that I may be able to upgrade shortly So, er yes, we -could- use the credits - any unit we can rush to delay them is another turn of time that allows us to get to the Hive! Let me know if you have any harbors we could sail into on the sou'east side there so we can unload our colonists easier, if you would be so kind (Screenshot perhaps?)

[Makahlua]

Latest message from HongHu - how are we going to coordinate this? Go ahead and drop to treaty next turn, or drop the turn before landing?

Makahlua,

I didn't realize that you didn't have a sea colony pod. This means you need a land square to establish your base. We have had some discussions inside the Hive. We would let you set your base at our land, however, this would mean we have to go through a very complex process of breaking pact, become vendetta, and reestablish pact. This may require more time than you would have. The best solution to us is for you to set up your base at the island southeast of the Hive and we send some forces to protect it. We will have penetrators that can fly to your base as soon as it is up and as soon as we build a transport we would be able to ship a couple plasma garrison and probes also. The first production of your new base in my opinion should be a defense probe (0-0-1 probe).

I'm attaching a local map for your reference.

http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=30637_ColonySite.bmp

I'm also attaching a post from Comrade Mead in the Hive forum. Hopefully it will help you understand more about the establishing base at pact member teritory issue.

quote:

They can establish a base on our southern coastline, even though it is in our territory.

They can only do this if they are not in a Pact with us.


I just ran a simulation on an old Trans SMAX single player game save I had to test this. This is what I found:

I was playing Hive, Pactmate was Cult.

While in Pact I tried to establish a base in Cultist territory and the following message came up.

"Chairman, our Pact of Brotherhood with Prohet Cha Dawn of the Planet Cult Precludes us from building bases in Cultist territory."

So, I clicked on the Comm menu and right click broke the Pact. The following message came up.

"Our Pact of Brotherhood with the Planet Cult has ended. All Cultist units have been removed from our territory. 5 units have been removed from cultist territitory and returned to our nearest bases."

I reloaded the test game, broke the Pact and then moved a colony pod into Cultist territory and, while in treaty but not in Pact, I tried to establish a base. I got the following message with two options.

"Chairman, our treaty with Prophet Dawn of the Planet Cult precludes us from building bases in Cultist territory.

NEVER MIND

BREAK TREATY

OK"

I then chose to break the treaty and my base was established.

The Cults then went into Vendetta against me.



From this test I conclude the following if we are going to allow Peace to establish a base on our territory:

1. Peace and us must break Pact before they enter our territory otherwise all of their units that are within our territory will automatically be returned to their nearest base once we break pact.

2. Once we break Pact their units and our units will not be able to occupy the same squares (or move through us) until we restablish Pact.

3. They must build their base before we reestablish Pact.

4. Once they build their base in our territory it is very likely that the game will automatically change the Treaty between us to Vendetta and we will have to restablish the Pact manually.

5. We need to be careful not to have our units in a position that would block their movement, because once we are out of Pact they cannot move through our units or occupy the same square.

6. Because I am not sure what would happen if both Peace and Hive units occupiped the same square, outside of both the Hive and Peace territory, when Pact was broken I think we should avoid it.

6a. We should also be careful not to try to move our units into the same square as their's while in treaty. Attempting to do so will result in attacking and destroying their units.

7. When we escort the Peace units in let's have our units behing them, providing a rear guard action.

8. Let's get them landed, established, and protected as soon as possible.

Mead

[foolish_icarus]

I can't see the map--Is landing on the island feasible?

[FlameFlash]

The map didn't show up right when I downloaded it... can you post a .jpg?

[Makahlua]

THis should work I hope:

http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=22677_colonysite.jpg

[foolish_icarus]

looks like the island is the best bet

[FlameFlash]

Who is the light blue in the picture though?

[Hercules]

The light blue is Data Roze. The Hive are at vendetta with the DJs

OK move to Treaty status next turn.

[Hercules]

Pity the Island is bare

[foolish_icarus]

Originally posted by Hercules
Pity the Island is bare

[Makahlua]

The Isle between us and the Hive he means. And I'm thinking to hold off un-pacting a few turns so they can cover us in the same squares until we're in air range. Sound good?