Combined diplomatic thread --Direction needed

[johndmuller]

Hopefully, the PUT just screwed up and forgot to give us the EthCalc and they will give it to us next turn. I would suggest that you hold the turn while you and/or Cap'n Flubber contact the PUT and MAKE SURE EVERYTHING IS OK instead of letting everything sail on by while it is screwed up like we did the last couple of turns. Some straight talk with the Borg might be a good idea too. It seems that nothing is going on in these areas when there are obvious problems. Is Ambas'dor Flubber unable to talk to either of them or what?

As to the turn details, I posted something in the turn thread (where Cap'n Herc should have posted his turn stuff instead of in here). I think that the drone problem could be eased or deferred if the EthicalCalc problem were resolved soon, so there is good reason to delay taking the turn in order to make sure that is on track. If you send out the turn before things are straightened out, it could possibly come around again before anyone over there realizes anything is wrong.

[Hercules]

This to MAniac and Drogue

Prime Functions Mani- Alpha -3 And Drogue Beta 8.

See your reply to us below. However in the actual turn you are researching Doc:
Init. Please explain and advise.

Peter Steenbeke wrote:

> Oh darn. I read your mail just now. I'm afraid I ordered to trade with the
> AI. :-( Since PEACE stopped negotiating after I sent the turn to you, I
> assumed you were no longer interested in the deal.
> In any case, a majority of the Collective was in favour of switching
> research to HEC after we got DocFlex, so we'll be able to finally finish the
> IndAut deal in some four years, and start with a clean slate. :-)
>
> Greetings,
>
> Maniac
>

[Hercules]

This to Dean Archaic

Greetings Dean and Professors.

Has there been a slight hiccup in the faculty. ?

Ambassador Flubber in discussions with Ambassador Crimson Sunrise
reached agreement on the trade of Doc: Flex for Ethical Calculus and
also a Pact.

For our part we delivered Doc: Flex and the Pact last turn and these
were accepted by you, however the small matter of the sending over of
Ethical Calculus didn't occur as agreed.

We believe this to be a small hiccup/error on your part but before we
complete the turn, our cap'ns asked that we get an explanation from
yourselves and assurance that it will sent over next turn. If you care
to also send over some ecs by way of compensation that would be
appreciated.

On the other issue of Comm links, Ambassador Flubber will be in touch
with your Ambassador.

Cap'n Calico Hercules.

[Flubber]

I have been in contact with both the university and cycon

University- claim an error and eth calc will be sent on the next turn-- I believe them

Cycon- claim that a non-regular turn player was playing and chose doc ini as the best possible tech among those available. maniac claimed to be upset about this.
I can't say that I believe them


Other stuff

WE have not traded doc flex to the Hive pending our making a deal with the drones

The drones offered eth calc for doc flex-- I had to decline and let them know that eh calc would soon be in our ownership

[Hercules]

Are Cycon going to change to HEC, next turn?

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Hercules
Are Cycon going to change to HEC, next turn?

Maniac gave no indication that this was their plan-- They would lose half their research points would they not??

[Googlie]

[FlameFlash]

Originally posted by Flubber



Maniac gave no indication that this was their plan-- They would lose half their research points would they not??

As the GreatGooglieGod suggests, perhaps we can offer them Doc: Init in trade for a rather large amount of ecs since they are being so blantatly bad at keeping their word.

Once we finally get the agreed upon tech I recommend that we reduce the pact to a treaty for there have been way too "misunderstandings" for it just to be coincidence. The PUT at the current time seem much more trustworthy, especially if they do deliver Eth Calc this next round.

[Hercules]

I received replies from both Maniac and Drogue along the same lines.

I don't believe them either. This offer to research NonLinear is based, I feel, on their belief that they can steal/trade it from Miriam or Roze. Well maybe so can we.

Dear Captain Hercules

Here is a copy of the message I sent to Flubber, explaing
and apologising for the mix-up.



"I write to you as Prime Function to apologise for the mix-up regarding our
turn-playing. With holidays and absenses things in the CyCon had been a bit
mixed up as of late, and so DBTS simply played the turn with what orders
were there, and doing what he saw as best. Since Corellion had not yet
posted the switch to HEC, as it was to be a late addition becuase of the
poll finishing, DBTS had no idea about the latest diplomacy. Please consider
this a formal apology on behalf of the CyCon, and accept our gift of 10ec
which we will put in the diplomacy box when we get the turn.

I am sorry for this mix up. As Maniac has said, we are willing to research
Nonlinear Mathemetics next, if you wish, to trade the tech you ideally
wanted (IIRC)."



DBTS has not been that active a member in the last couple of months, and so
has not been up to date with negotiations. As I said to Flubber, I am truly
sorry for the mix-up, and we are willing both to research Nonlinear Math and
trade that, if you wish, and gift you 10ec as an apology.



Yours,

Prime Function Drogue Beta-8

If Flubber can secure restrictive trading and non building of MCC terms and a good price I would sell Doc: Init just so we can be rid of them. With the money we might be able to buy Non Linear from Roz or Miriam, and let the cycon research HEC which we also want.

[johndmuller]

I'd like to believe the Borgs' story, but I'm having trouble going along with the idea that Doc:Initiative could be anyone's idea of the "best" tech for them to research (especially an "anyone" trusted to take the turns) given this presumed list of alternatives from the tech offerings tool:

• Doctrine: Initiave;
• Ethical Calculus;
• Polymorphic Software;
• Nonlinear Mathematics;
• High Energy Chemistry;
• Doctrine: Loyalty.

I could believe Ethical Calc as an unthinking SP oriented choice, bult the onlly way Doc:Init makes sense to me is that they were thinking of shaking us down once again into another attempted forced trade of one of our techs. Perhaps they can convince us otherwise, but given their less than 'convincing' history, I'd be surprised if they could come up with anything very credible (willing to let them try, however). If they fancy themselves roleplaying, I'd be interested to know what role that is they are playing.

To have any chance of getting back in our good graces, I think they need to provide a REALLY BIG GESTURE to prove that all this has just been a regretable error. Ambas'dor Flubber, do you think that you can get that point across? I guess I wouldn't rule out the possibility of putting Doc:init on the table, but that would require an EVEN BIGGER GESTURE on their part.

As dumb as switching research techs at this point would be for them (and for the global research effort as a whole), it might improve their credibility and it might stand a chance in the gesture department. It would definitely waste a few turns worth of research, but after all, they are on a course to effectively waste their whole research cycle duplicating our effort. Perhaps that would also be a talking point for Ambas'dor Flubber. They can't buy it from someone else this time, AFAIK, so we are the only recourse for them to avoid the redundant research of something they don't really need anyway (speaking of which, where did they get all that cash from?).

FlameFlash, as much as de-pacting makes a statement, it also hurts us as much as it hurts them, in commerce and in infiltration (and we don't have any probes at the moment to infiltrate them with to make up for that lack of infiltration - and we have a surplus of proposed probe missions already).

[FlameFlash]

I take it we're actually benefitting from commerce with them?

I'd doubted it, but I haven't looked at the turns.

I say probe them to infiltrate ASAP and end the pact if they don't shape up. The commerce hit will hurt them more than us since we have another pactmate.

[johndmuller]

I've had funny experiences w/r probing while pacted - in one game, I infiltrated after forming a pact (like we would be doing) and when the pact was ended, so was my infiltration (I had lost the probe doing the useless infiltration too). I don't know if that always happens or not, so its an open question - just wanted you to know that it was open to futility too. In any case, if we do end the pact, we should be ready to (ree)infiltrate right away, but that is academic as we have no probes (and only a defensive one in the works at the moment (we could be building 1 or 2 next turn I think, should we choose to do that.

We are seemingly getting equal benefits in commerce (about 5 per turn IIRC).

[FlameFlash]

We need defensive probes, I say after they're built we have one or two offensive probes.

Of course if we get Impact weaponry any time soon, let's just go take out Miriam.

[Hercules]

I 'm one to complain.

but this debate should be in the Strategy thread.

I think we are approaching the stage where a bit of discussion discipline is required otherwise good ideas are lost.

[Atlantian]

I just saw this quote. Might help in future diplomatic situations...

"I have discovered the art of deceiving diplomats. I tell them the truth and they never believe me."
-- Camillo Di Cavour