The Everlasting CCCP !

[Pandemoniak]

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus


Why not? Given that the US block contained far more of the world than the USSR's did, and they still killed less people, I don't know how you can make such a claim.

The USSR block *was* more populated than the US block :
USSR population in 1990 : around 300 millions
USA population in 1990 : around 250 millions
And I think that the USSSR satellites were far more populated than the USA's satellites, but I cant be sure.

The thing about political repression in both blocks was that it was far more overt and violent in the USSR than the US. In the US, people were never forbidden from mentioning something upon pain fo death - they might be studiously ignored if they mentioned something inconvenient, but that didn't stop them fro speaking.

This is quite true, the soviet repression is more overt and violent - more direct, actually, while the USA's system of repression is indirect. But I'll appeal to a specialist opinion : Amnesty International, nowadays, consider that the two countries most wanted for breaking the Declaration of Human Rights are :
1. The United States of America
2. The Popular Democracy of China

Other examples would include the refusal of the US government to have an american judged by an international court, etc...

The US, throughout it's whole bloody history, would be hard-pressed to find an example of barabarism committed by it or it's proxies to match Stalin's genocide in the Ukraine - and that was just one of many Soviet crimes. The Americans committed many crimes, but they enver managed to match the Soviets in their sheer scale.

You cant ignore the massive deportation of black people, the genocide of Human Beings (continued by the US, though started by others), the constant wars in the rest of the world (Texas 1835-1836, Mexico, Hawaï, Cuba 1898, Panama 1903, Nicaragua 1912-1916, etc..., the constant undeclared wars (Vietnam, Yougoslavia, Korea, Guatemala, Combodgia, Laos, Grenade, Panama, Irak, etc...), the two nuclear bombs and their experimentations, and so on...
The fact that there is not a single example that is famously recognized as a larger genocide than Ukraine's must not refrain us to consider the larger variety, and larger number of US crimes. This mean that while USSR concentrated its crimes, USA's crimes were spread out.

[GeneralTacticus]

The USSR block *was* more populated than the US block :
USSR population in 1990 : around 300 millions
USA population in 1990 : around 250 millions
And I think that the USSSR satellites were far more populated than the USA's satellites, but I cant be sure.

Only if you include China and/or India in the Soviet block, and ignore everything outside the USA. Pretty much the whole of Latin America fell inside the US block, along with Indonesia (one of the most populous countries in the world), Japan, etc.

This is quite true, the soviet repression is more overt and violent - more direct, actually, while the USA's system of repression is indirect. But I'll appeal to a specialist opinion : Amnesty International, nowadays, consider that the two countries most wanted for breaking the Declaration of Human Rights are :
1. The United States of America
2. The Popular Democracy of China

Other examples would include the refusal of the US government to have an american judged by an international court, etc...

The US freely abuses human rights in other countries, but is rather mroe constrained within it's own borders. The US government doe shave some rather inconvenient constraints placed on it, as it's continued existence is dependant solely on the people continuing to suffer it, which means that they have to continuously keep their crimes hidden from view when they can't stop people from pointing them out.

You cant ignore the massive deportation of black people, the genocide of Human Beings (continued by the US, though started by others), the constant wars in the rest of the world (Texas 1835-1836, Mexico, Hawaï, Cuba 1898, Panama 1903, Nicaragua 1912-1916, etc..., the constant undeclared wars (Vietnam, Yougoslavia, Korea, Guatemala, Combodgia, Laos, Grenade, Panama, Irak, etc...), the two nuclear bombs and their experimentations, and so on...

I'm not ignoring them, I'm totalling them all up and they add up to something close to the Ukrainian genocide - which was merely a single Soviet crime.

The fact that there is not a single example that is famously recognized as a larger genocide than Ukraine's must not refrain us to consider the larger variety, and larger number of US crimes. This mean that while USSR concentrated its crimes, USA's crimes were spread out.

Doesn't mitigate them in any way.

[Jamski]

But the reason behind these crimes ?

USSR - Stalin's paranoia etc.
USA - National philsophy

Hmm?

-Jam

[GeneralTacticus]

I don't recall any part of the US national philiosohpy that involved napalming villagers or poisoning nations with depleted uranium. Do you?

And btw, Soviet crimes didn't exactly cease when Stalin died. They slowed down a bit, but that's it.

[Jamski]

Hmm, I thought US national philosophy was "Look after our own interests, whatever the cost" This would include nalpalming Viatnamese. Stalin was also looking out for himself only. After he was gone, things got (a bit) better.

-Jam

[GeneralTacticus]

Philosophy of the leaders != national philosophy.

[Jamski]

Disagree. Look at current situation with Blair vs English.

-Jam

[GeneralTacticus]

And this proves your point how? I think what it proves is that Blair definitely does not represent the national philosophy of his country.

[Jamski]

I thought you were saying that leader's philosphy=national philosopy? Hmm?

-Jam

[GeneralTacticus]

I said != - that is 'does not equal'.

[Jamski]

Ah - sorry I thought that was a typo. I think =/= is "not equals", or?

-Jam

[GeneralTacticus]

That's an alternative.

[Main_Brain]

and I always thought =! means 'should be'

[Archaic]

!= =/= =!

[Jamski]

-Jam