The STEP High Garden

[GeneralTacticus]

So our garrison and military units don't carry weapons?.

Of course they do, they need them to do their jobs. Drones don't.

Is there any proof our workers , talents and specialists don't carry weapons?

Of course not, but they don't all do so.

I presume you GT carry a weapon, seeing you are a 'general'?

Yes. Is there some kind of problem witht his? I have alicense and everything, to prove that I am considered mentally stable and safety-concious enough to be allowed to carry a weapon.

Trouble-makers. If they are lazy trouble makers then I presume the don't make much trouble because doing so requires effort. So they may simply be trouble makers. Admittedly they can cause disruption to production for a short period.

They're lazy as in they don't want to work. Causing trouble is fun for them, hence they do it even thought hey're lazy.

So lets see what we have as a definition:

Someone who carries weapons.
Someone who is a trouble maker, for instance disrupting the production of ideas and debate in a political party think tank.
And presumably the name 'drone' not only comes brings to mind insects in a hive but also the connotation ' drones' on.

I wonder are there other types of 'Drones' around

I'm hgardly 'disrupting the production of ideas and debate in a political think-tank', as, first off, this isn't a poltiical think tank; secondly, I'm not disrupting your debate, as you are free to ignore me if you wish.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus
I'm hgardly 'disrupting the production of ideas and debate in a political think-tank', as, first off, this isn't a poltiical think tank; secondly, I'm not disrupting your debate, as you are free to ignore me if you wish.

Actually this was intended as a political think-tank. And the fact we are free to ignore you does not matter, it would be hard to have an discussion ignoring you're posts, because it would be all to easy to get lost. Moreover, people will not ignore you, whether they be STEP or not. I'm not saying to stop debating, it's interesting, but one on the the nature of drones is more on topic in the CCCP workshop or the DLP thread IMHO.

Herc: You asked before what should our policies be, other than to save Planet. I'm not sure if you saw my answer.

“Yes we do. I would suggest taken the Gaian ideals of
1) High Planet rating, low eco-damage;
2) Pacifism;
3) Freedom of the individual.
but add a 4th:
4) Equality, wherever possible, between individuals, but by ethos rather than law or high taxes.
They would be my personal vision for a better nation. “
What are your thoughts on this? Which bits would you like to change? Can I suggest we produce a manifesto for what we stand for? To help new people who look at our thread to understand what we’re about.

[Hercules]

Developing policies beyond saving the environment.
Drogue your suggestions are a good starting point.

“Yes we do. I would suggest taken the Gaian ideals of
1) High Planet rating, low eco-damage;
2) Pacifism;
3) Freedom of the individual.
but add a 4th:
4) Equality, wherever possible, between individuals, but by ethos rather than law or high taxes.
They would be my personal vision for a better nation. “
What are your thoughts on this? Which bits would you like to change? Can I suggest we produce a manifesto for what we stand for? To help new people who look at our thread to understand what we’re about.

Much as we admire the Gaians and are in total agreement with many of their policies we do differ in some policy areas. Taking your points

1 High Planet / low eco-damge - without a doubt our central policy.

2 As we wish to share the planet with the natives then we need to achieve a balance between the native habitat and the green earth habitat we brought.

3 I am not sure about us being totally pacificist. If after constantly asking particular factions diplomatically, to cease heavy pollution production and they persist in ignoring our requests, IMO war then becomes an option.

4 Freedom of the individual. Not absolute freedom, rights and responsibilities are in here also. we are against corruption and oppression.

5 Equality. Tolerance, Respect.Yes

6 But as you've alluded to elsewhere we are also a party that likes to party. we have time for arts and culture and sport.

7 Also I think we should attempt to outline our preferred science, tech path and preferred facilities, which may be guided by our preferred SPs such as the Pholus Mutagen.

8 We might also wish to have our own 'green region'

9 Finally when we meet Deirdre, how can we work best with her.
Some initial thoughts on your /our policy ideas.

As this is our think tank it would be useful if only broad supporters of saving the environment and the draft policies above would contribute. When we publish the manifesto you can debate then.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Hercules
3 I am not sure about us being totally pacificist. If after constantly asking particular factions diplomatically, to cease heavy pollution production and they persist in ignoring our requests, IMO war then becomes an option.

I would be against this, as war damages the environment, and although I agree others should be Green, and we should pressurie them to, I do not believe in forcing my beliefs on others by violence. I think it would be hard to say whether the effects of the war wouldn't damage Planet more than the other factions polluting. I am willing to compromise over the party position, however I will personally campaign for a stop to all wars, because it is a stronly held personal belief of mine.

Originally posted by Hercules
4 Freedom of the individual. Not absolute freedom, rights and responsibilities are in here also. we are against corruption and oppression.

5 Equality. Tolerance, Respect.Yes

Absolutly. Libertarianism (Freedom so long as it does not detract from others rights) but with environmental controls.
I think we should combine the two: 'We strive for an equal, fair and free society for all'.

Originally posted by Hercules
7 Also I think we should attempt to outline our preferred science, tech path and preferred facilities, which may be guided by our preferred SPs such as the Pholus Mutagen.

8 We might also wish to have our own 'green region'

9 Finally when we meet Deirdre, how can we work best with her.
Some initial thoughts on your/our policy ideas.

I think this is all good, and I agree with it, although possibly not all in the manifesto. I would bring up some of the more specific points in discussion forums, such as how to deal with Deirdre or Green regions, as I think they are assumed by our other principles. I would keep the STEP party thread and use it for debate, and have this for STEP communication and celebration

My idea for the STEP Manifesto:
1) We believe in developing a natural harmony with Planet, including a high Planet and low eco-damage rating.
2) We will not support war unless absolutly necessary, to defend ourselves against a faction who's views are opposed to ours.
3) We strive for an equal, fair, tolerant and free society for all, where power and position are allocated by merit rather than birthright or wealth.
4) We are for research towards ecological and exploration technologies, and the building of tree farms and other ecological base enhancements.
5) We see our future in Eudaimonia and Transcendance, as we believe the happiness of people, and the harmony with Planet, are integral parts of becoming enlightened.
And we like to Party!

What do you think? Any suggestions?

[GeneralTacticus]

Just a question about one of the points:

2) We will not support war unless absolutly necessary, to defend ourselves against a faction who's views are opposed to ours.

Wouldn't that serve as justification for an invasion of more or less any other faction on Planet? We could find disagreements between our views and those of any other faction.

[Pandemoniak]

... an invasion ...

... to defend ourselves ...

[DeathByTheSword]

eh if you do not support a war then be ready to argue with me pretty soon i will propose something soon....

[Drogue]

Then I shall be arguing (The party hasn't sanctioned those yet)

GT: Pande is right, I will only support a war to defend ourselves, we should never strike the first blow, even pre-emptively.

[DeathByTheSword]

you might want to take a look at the new thread of the Command Nexus

[Hercules]

Drogue: I can accept all the points you make.

I am willing to compromise over the party position, however I will personally campaign for a stop to all wars, because it is a strongly held personal belief of mine.

I accept your spirit of compromise on the war question. But I think we need to tidy up the war issue.

GT has made a valid point.

Factional strife is almost inevitable in SMAC. And sometimes we can be drawn into vendetta via a pact brother. When the time comes, if need be, we can always try to get the other faction to start the war (to maintain our diplomacy rating). So a possibility for our manifesto could be 'no first strike' for 40 years. It can be renewed but see planet busters below.

If some faction starts a war against us, then we have to support our faction but seek a speedy resolution.

But I feel we are also against a proliferation of Planet Busters and would seek to intervene for their distruction in addition to developing missle shields or ordital defence.

Still working on this.

In light of DBTS's post we need to do it quick.

How about point 2
Draft

We will pursue our goals peacefully, but reserve the right to defend ourselves from military and espionage attack. We reserve the right to intervene on our allies behalf. We reserve the right to intervene to prevent large scale global eco damage.

'Intervene' allows us scope for diplomacy, to share tech, to donate tech, arrange loans, donate units to assist defence, place one of our units in a pact brothers base in order to stall attack. It also allows us to intervene militaristically if need be.

[DeathByTheSword]

i just have to say about planting own units in allies bases i great....they have then a real peacekeeping mission

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Hercules
Factional strife is almost inevitable in SMAC. And sometimes we can be drawn into vendetta via a pact brother. When the time comes, if need be, we can always try to get the other faction to start the war (to maintain our diplomacy rating). So a possibility for our manifesto could be 'no first strike' for 40 years. It can be renewed but see planet busters below.

If some faction starts a war against us, then we have to support our faction but seek a speedy resolution.

But I feel we are also against a proliferation of Planet Busters and would seek to intervene for their distruction in addition to developing missle shields or ordital defence.

How about point 2
Draft

We will pursue our goals peacefully, but reserve the right to defend ourselves from military and espionage attack. We reserve the right to intervene on our allies behalf. We reserve the right to intervene to prevent large scale global eco damage.

'Intervene' allows us scope for diplomacy, to share tech, to donate tech, arrange loans, donate units to assist defence, place one of our units in a pact brothers base in order to stall attack. It also allows us to intervene militaristically if need be.

I agree with your general ethos. I think we need to mention that we are against Planet Busters, but for orbital defence etc., that we will not strike without provocation, and that we will seek resolution with the minimum damage and loss of life.

How about:
We will pursue our goals peacefully, but when provoked, will defend ourselves. We will intervene if a faction attacks our Pact Brother, or to prevent atrocities, but will seek a speedy resolution with the minimum damage and loss of life. We will never sanction the use of Planet Busters.

[Hercules]

Yes Ok it will do for 50 years and then subject to review.

[Drogue]

Manifesto etc in first post. Take a look and tell me if it all looks ok.

[GeneralTacticus]

In light of DBTS's post we need to do it quick.

If you're talking about his plan for a war on Morgan, then you will (shock, horror) have an ally in me. I have no desire to see our citizens and those of our allies die for no other reason than our military's boredom.