Official DoSE Poll: Social Engineering scheme

[MrWhereItsAt]

Alright, here's an idea that was dreamed up and fleshed out by me and Archaic.

The SE poll I put up seems to suggest that Planned and Democracy will be the choices we make, BUT the concern was that Planned will kill our Efficiency somewhat creating both drones and less energy, and Democracy will eliminate our 10 free minerals at the start of each base.

So the ideas is this: we will return the scouts we have to our bases (so as not to cause unhappiness in FM), and change to FM/Democracy. This will give us lotsa energy whilst still allowing us to grow with the Demo Growth bonus. When we are to found a new base, we change out of Democracy the turn before founding the new base, so we can get the 10 free resources for that new base. After the base is founded, we then change back to Democracy and have barely skipped a beat. This should cost us 16 energy per change, so we are effectively buying those minerals for 32 energy. And in the meantime we will be making lots more from FM!


Whaddaya think? If passed, this wouldn't be initiated until we can call back the scouts to our own bases, as the unhappiness would be annoying. It could be a way to boost ourselves ahead of the other factions early on whilst still mainataining a decent expansion rate.

4 Days, as this will likely not happen in the next chat anyway.

[Method]

ok: a few things with this. if we did it, it wouldn't be worth it just to found 1 base. at least 2 would have to be done on the same turn to make it worth while. second, the cost isn't 16, but 32 IIRC.

then, if we did switch to FM, we'd need at least 10% psych to counter the drones (mind you we could afford it due to the elevated energy). this might even cause GAs in some places.

another thing: we'd need to keep some empath units around, the only problem with that being that we don't have the tech for it yet

and archaic: i asked in the general forum: apparently the +1 economy does work, and so does the growth, except it doesn't cause pop booms. so the most we can get by using GAs, is +5 growth.

MWIA: i suggest you hold a poll re: wealth now. we might get the tech for it in the next chat.

[MrWhereItsAt]

Part of the idea is to time our base establishments so that 2-3 coincide and we can get the most out of the least number of turns out of Democracy.

This is a bit of a radical idea, but it might just give us an edge. I'm not sure which number to take for SE changes, 16 or 32, as I have seen both. I will check myself when I get home.

[Pandemoniak]

Unefficiency dont cause Drones.

Two social engineering in the same turn is such a drastic revolution : cost 108 credits. It would cost 32 + 32 if we do it in two turns. We have 259 credits available.

If we switch to FM + Demo right now,
New apolyton will have three drones out of four citizens, all citizens must become Doctors to avoid drone riots.
Tbibtu will have one drone, needing all two population to turn to doctors.
New Suez will riot at nex pop point (6turns),
UN PD will riot at next pop point (4turns)

If we switch to FM + 10%psych, after the scouts came back home : (I simulate that by disbading all non-independent units outta bases)
NA will have two drones, one doctor needed. Pop point at next turn, must be turned doctor to avoid riots, base growth becomes impossible.
TBIBTU will have one drone, one doctor needed : next pop point is next turn, it will make one talent/one citizen/one drone.
UN PD will need his next citizen to be turned into a doctor, stopping growth at 4.

[Pandemoniak]

And the 10% psych allocation seems useless, since no base of us has 20+ energy, which would have 2 psy, what is needed to turna citizen a talent, or a drone to a citizen.
20% psych allocation is useless too, since no base have 10+ energy.

[GeneralTacticus]

Unefficiency dont cause Drones.

Yes it does. B-drones, as Archaic refers to them as. Look it up, if you don't believe me.

[Pandemoniak]

What do you call B-Drones ?

[GeneralTacticus]

Bureaucracy drones. They're created by the number of bases you have, modified by your efficincy level.

[DeathByTheSword]

ofcoure it is a good idea but it isnt really roleplay like you know.......we have some ideals or we have none............IF the later is the case lets build PLANETBUSTERS.... j/k but still not really roleplayer like

[Pandemoniak]

We dont have enough bases for "b-drones"

[GeneralTacticus]

If we go Planned w/o Demo, we will. At our current EFFIC level, we will hit the first limit at 20 bases.

[Mr. President]

First option. Money, money, money!

[Pandemoniak]

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus
If we go Planned w/o Demo, we will. At our current EFFIC level, we will hit the first limit at 20 bases.

Hey, come on dont be silly. We're no punks, we wont do planned without Demo. By the way, its Planned+Demo that has been voted.

[Archaic]

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus
If we go Planned w/o Demo, we will. At our current EFFIC level, we will hit the first limit at 20 bases.

Your calcs are flawed, but by nowhere near the level Unskilled Labourer Pan's assumptions are.


For our game settings...

X = 2 * BASES / (6.4 * [4 + EFFIC])
B-Drones = X for all values of X>=1


At 20 bases with our current settings

2 * 20 / (6.4 * [4 + -1])
40 / 6.4 * 3
40 / 19.2
2.083_ B-Drones

For B-Drones to be 0 with our current settings, or with Demo/Planned, we need no more than 9 bases.
9 Bases = 18 / 19.2 = 0.9375 = 0 B-Drones
10 Bases = 20 / 19.2 = 1.046_ B-Drone

For B-Drones to be 0 with only Planned, we can have no more than 3 bases.
3 Bases = 6 / 6.4 = 0.9375 = 0 B-Drones
4 Bases = 8 / 6.4 = 1.25 B-Drones

For B-Drones to be 0 with Free Market / Planned, we can have no more than 15 bases.
15 Bases = 30 / 32 = 0.9375 = 0 B-Drones
16 Bases = 32 / 32 = 1 B-Drone


Oh, and DBTS, I addressed the roleplay issue of it in the SE Debate thread.

[moomin]

If in-turn SE changes for diplomatic reasons (which can simply be explained as flattery or bribing) are frowned upon as cheating, this whole scheme just reeks of massive powergaming breakage.