First Build queue discussion thread

[Method]

hey MWIA. if we get it started soon enough, we can have the WP finished by 2160, and the HGP finished by 2170. think about it.

[Anodyne]

Originally posted by Archaic
Assuming all future bases and depending on the underlying terrain....

(No 2 Nut tiles)
Former/Garrison/CP/Former/CP/Tanks/Commons

(2 Nut tiles)
Garrison/CP/Former/CP/Former/Tanks/Commons

That's all we'd probably have to be worried about early on.

I'd go with that

[Main_Brain]

CEco within 16Turns I guess, so If possible I agree with CP,Scout/Former(depends on Surroundings),CP,Garnison

[Zakharov VII]

Originally posted by lucky22

Originally posted by Maniac

My suggestion is that as soon as we have landed the Director organizes a poll simply with the question what will be our first build in our first base. Nothing more.

Well said. This man speals sense, MWIA.

I disagree. We need to plan in advance, so that correct decisions can be made on hurrying. And we should definately be hurrying quite a bit, especially if we can get on Free Market.

Originally posted by TKG

hey MWIA. if we get it started soon enough, we can have the WP finished by 2160, and the HGP finished by 2170. think about it.

I've never played on Thinker, but I can't imagine it being MUCH worse than Transcend. In that case, I advise that we be very careful with what we plan on. In a recent game of mine, Deirdre got the Weather Paradigm in 2130 (can't remember the exact years, but I know the decade), and some other project (Human Genome or Merchant Exchange) by 2150. This was Transcend, but Thinker won't be twice as slow, right?

Every once in a while (on my Transcend experience), the AI does really well (with its cheating, of course ). We have to be careful what we count on. Thus we should be flexible enough with our strategy, perhaps prepared to go green (not Green) with forests if the Weather Paradigm fails, taking the ME (I prefer it over HGP even on Transcend, even without crawlers. With the extra drone help (on Thinker) and crawlers allowed, we can get a killer energy base with ME + SC + ToE. Even if we miss the Paradigm, the sea is a good cheap crawler place, as well as Hybrid Forest forest), foresting, putting in Creches and Commons for a Tree Farm population boom.

Z

[Method]

Originally posted by Zakharov VII
In a recent game of mine, Deirdre got the Weather Paradigm in 2130

she must have gotten some artifacts! i've never seen an AI get it that fast. and by "we can get a project by 2160" i mean we can get it in the 2150's.

Originally posted by Zakharov VII
Every once in a while (on my Transcend experience), the AI does really well (with its cheating, of course ).

it gets an industry bonus right?

Originally posted by Zakharov VII
We have to be careful what we count on. Thus we should be flexible enough with our strategy, perhaps prepared to go green (not Green) with forests if the Weather Paradigm fails, taking the ME (I prefer it over HGP even on Transcend, even without crawlers).

well, if we fail at the WP, switch it to HGP, and switch HGP to VW or command nexus. i NEVER take the ME. Why would you take ME over HGP? +1 energy/tile over +1 talent in EVERY base? are you nuts?

[Zakharov VII]

Nuts? I much prefer Energy...sorry, I had to say that .

She probably did get some artifacts, but the AI does have a huge production bonus (equivilent to +3 or +4 on the SE scale) on Transcend. It's 1-2 less on Thinker, IIRC.

The ME is quite an investment, considering how when I run Free Market with forests, it doesn't make a difference until Environmental Economics when the Energy cap is lifted! However, it gives either +50% or +33% bonus to all energy production at the base (depending on whether I'm on Planned or Free Market), and with all the facilities and those nice tech secret projects, it's quite a powerful base (especially if we build lots of crawlers to feed it hundreds of energy).

If I can get two early SPs, I like ME and VW, and if I can snatch a third I get HGP. VW saves some maintenence and some build time, both good. HGP gives only 1 extra Talent. It's nice with small bases, but with larger ones, 10% Psych with all the +% Psych facilities (Hologram Theater, Tree Farm, Research Hospital, Hybrid Forest, and more later on) is plenty to get large ones (size 18 if we can get Ascetic Virties ) stable. The 10% Psych would be necessary anyways even with HGP, as only a -5 to drones and a +6 talent (PK+HGP) won't nearly cover such a base.

Early on, I keep bases size 2 or less. They just keep churning out Colony Pods, so they never get larger. The SP building bases get a Recreation Commons which takes them to size 5, IIRC (thanks to another PK Talent at 4), and later as expansion ends all bases get Tanks, Commons, and Creches. Nodes are put in (assuming VW), Tree Farms are put in, then I switch to Planned to bring them up high (with a +10% or +20% put in when needed). HGP's one extra talent never seems like a big deal to me (I do play PK a lot, so I rely on the inherent extra Talents. Even with University I don't do much different, putting Psych one notch higher).

Z

[MrWhereItsAt]

I think I need to actually put that poster up! I don't often use abbreviations, so it will take me alittle time to get into them.

Some good discussion going here, the Ministers need to make it clear what their priorities are too. Although ther is clearly little in the way of a consensus (I will come back later and see if I can work one out), what is becoming obvious to me is that most support formers as soon as we have the tech, and that a garrison at the start is not necessarily the best option. Keep it up, I will do my best to put some ideas together later on!

[Method]

don't worry about me... i doubt we'll even get the tech for network nodes in the 1st term, let along have to build any.

what we need is:

formers formers formers formers formers formers formers formers formers formers formers

and the odd colony pod, here or there

[Voltaire]

Scout/Scout/Colony Pod/Colony Pod/Colony Pod/Colony Pod/Colony Pod/Colony Pod/Colony Pod

[GeneralTacticus]

I'd ask for a garrison then a scout (not including our free scout patrol), after that it's not really relevant for my Directorate.

[Lemmy]

scout or/and garrison first, and then tanks/cp or former.
Since Mobility will probably not be the first tech we research, i would like to have as much scout units early on as possible to make up for the loss in speed.

[Gnool]

I think garrison/scout/CP/CP/CP/CP/CP/CP is a nice plan

[MrWhereItsAt]

Well this is going to be VERY difficult, but here is a first draft type queue

Scout/CP/garrison/formers

Formers will be built as soon as tech allows after the first CP. This takes us a fair few turns into the game, and beyond then it may be necessary to know more about our environs before planning any further.

My justification: A Scout is needed for early pod-popping and to find us some base sites. Colony Pod as the more bases the earlier the better (DUH) and this would also mean we could start to build things that take a bit longer, like Recyc Tanks, without stopping expansion dead. Garrison, whcih we will need sooner rather than later, and some are desperate for formers, thus we will go for one as soon as we are able to after the CP.

Well, let's hear a bit of discussion on this now. Keep in mind we want a queue soon, so try to make some acceptable compromises.

[GeneralTacticus]

Are you sure we should build a CP before a garrison? If we get a poor start we could be waiting for a long time, and we would be screwed if a mindworm popped out of the fungus ate us all for lunch.

[AdamTG02]

Seems balanced, and I do agree that the first priority at the start should be to explore and expand. The only suggestion I would make is that if nutrient production is skimpy in the first base (no square above one) that the colony pod (which would disband the base anyway if produced too early) be switched with the formers (which can improve squares, allowing the base to grow that quickly in the future.)

Edit: GT has a point; maybe garrison should be earlier. I'm thinking that for the first base, mindworms are unlikely to attack us. I definitely support early garrisons for later bases, though.