CCCP's Workshop.

[lucky22]

Under industrial capitalism, necessities such as food and optional commodities such as AC are traded for using units of the same artificial and abstracted value system. Life itself is a consumeristic reification- no one is equipped to live unless he or she is equipped to shop. FM reflects this reality in its utterly unregulated form. This irrationality is considered a reflection of "natural law" by minds raised within consumerism and with a vested interest in maintaininhg its existence.
Planned economies deal with access to resources in acute circumstances more effectively, but wind up undermined by opposed military/industrial/entertainment complexes.

I personally am not an anarchist- individual freedom is an abused concept in the modern west, and until equilibrium is restored at even the individual level, I consider a concern with "doing whatever one wants whenever one wants to" to be a decadent value. On the other hand I play AC, so obviously ideology and
practice are somewhat seperated by personal weaknesses.

Schinkenjoe writes: The crucial question is if there is a mayority to run Green

Agreed.

(I abstain on banning tmb, though I fully accept all conditions of Aplyton citizenship without reservation. If he is banned by a higher power for improper mischief, so be it)

[Pandemoniak]

Originally posted by lucky22
I personally am not an anarchist- individual freedom is an abused concept in the modern west, and until equilibrium is restored at even the individual level, I consider a concern with "doing whatever one wants whenever one wants to" to be a decadent value. On the other hand I play AC, so obviously ideology and
practice are somewhat seperated by personal weaknesses.

Anarchy si not : "doing whatever one one wants whenver one wants to ", it s about deleting hierarchy itself. See Chomsky or Highleyman for more informations.

(I abstain on banning tmb, though I fully accept all conditions of Aplyton citizenship without reservation. If he is banned by a higher power for improper mischief, so be it)

So be it, Vendetta upon him !
(maybe I played SMAC too much ?)

[Method]

sorry if i made it look that way, but to my knowledge, wasn't permabanned. look here and here. apparently he made numerous posts of this nature including posts like "u suck", "u ppl r barabarians.u suck." and "the usa sux major arse...."

[Pandemoniak]

...


and thats why he's banned from both poly and the CCCP

[Method]

again, not sure if he's banned completely from poly. could just be a week or something.

[Pandemoniak]

He hasnt been seen on any CCCP forum in many weeks, so except if tmb shows himself in the newt week, he is banned forever from the Citizen's party.

[Pandemoniak]

Foreman Pandemoniak annoucement :

Comrade Tassadar left us.

This is a painful thing to say, but our Comrade left us. I've been talking with him, and he said that he left the CCCP because he was supporting Free Market for science, and because he believe parties are dreadful for a democracy.

I answered him : we in the CCCP dont have a party line, and our party is only made to discuss marxism, but he chose to left us anyway.

[...]

Tassadar is our Comrade anyway, and I give him all my support.
May Comrades Marx and Engels be with him.

[lucky22]

Originally posted by Pandemoniak

Anarchy si not : "doing whatever one one wants whenver one wants to ", it s about deleting hierarchy itself. See Chomsky or Highleyman for more informations.

I'm completely aware of Anarchy as a modern philosophy. There is currently a popular perversion of it as a life-stlyle here where I live, and it winds up being the same old hippie crap- total libertarianism in pseudo political disguise. This "anarchy" owes more to the Russian Anarcho-Nihilist terrorists of the late 19th and early 20th centuries than to anything approaching Marx' post-industrial ideal. Obviously, the Russian model of Nihilist was an historical harbinger of a necessary revolution, but the current manifestation keeps all the disregard for social reproduction of the conditions of existence and just about none of the requirements for depth of character. On a tactical, one-to-one in the street level, I therefore must remain a structuralist (upon which statement, I'd recommend Chomsky also, along with Louis Althusser ).

[lucky22]

Originally posted by Pandemoniak
Foreman Pandemoniak annoucement :

Comrade Tassadar left us.

...

Tassadar is our Comrade anyway, and I give him all my support.
May Comrades Marx and Engels be with him.

Man, what a bummer. All the best to him.

[Main_Brain]

Mhh should'nt we try to eliminate Parties?

[Pandemoniak]

To Main_Brain, I dont see the use to disband parties, as long as they dont ruin the game.

To Lucky22, structuralism and anarchism are not necessary uncompatible. There can be a structure in anarchism (and there has been one during the Paris Commune), as long as its not hierarchical. Refer to Bakunin's comments on the Marxist proletarian revolution theory for more informations.

[Maniac]

Main_Brain raises a good question. Pandemoniak, as you are against the concept of state, how can you support the concept of parties? Or is it just a temporary organization to achieve to goal of destroying the state?

[lucky22]

Originally posted by Pandemoniak
To Lucky22, structuralism and anarchism are not necessary uncompatible. There can be a structure in anarchism (and there has been one during the Paris Commune), as long as its not hierarchical.

I agree completely.

Refer to Bakunin's comments on the Marxist proletarian revolution theory for more informations.

I will go ahead and follow up on that Bakunin, and recommend The 18th Brumaire of Louis Napoleon, one of my very favorites- Marx' observation that one of the great prizes of modern revolutions is possession of the bureaucracy is a classic. I don't believe true anarchy can or wants to abandon a complex division of labor.
I suppose I just get annoyed when shiftless cretins claim Anarchy when all they want is freedom from discipline. Discussions on this topic can make some of the FM vs Planned stuff here at 'Poly look downright tame, as I'm sure you are aware.

[lucky22]

Originally posted by Maniac
Main_Brain raises a good question. Pandemoniak, as you are against the concept of state, how can you support the concept of parties? Or is it just a temporary organization to achieve to goal of destroying the state?

Party platforms focus the power of sympathetic voters on specific issues very effectively in a voting democracy. So yes, not to answer for Pan, but until our offspring evolve beyond the need for artifices such as the State (or faction) such organizations are of great utility. Unfortunately, not every voter has the time or inclination to be absolutely informed regarding every issue he or she has the responsibility of voting on.

[Pandemoniak]

Originally posted by lucky22


Party platforms focus the power of sympathetic voters on specific issues very effectively in a voting democracy.

Until there I agree.

So yes, not to answer for Pan, but until our offspring evolve beyond the need for artifices such as the State (or faction) such organizations are of great utility. Unfortunately, not every voter has the time or inclination to be absolutely informed regarding every issue he or she has the responsibility of voting on.

There I say no, parties are not a step before the dissolution of state. Its organized and structured in a non-hierachical manner : the sioux political system is a good example : the Pow Wow organizes debate, and wiser members of the tribe are called or can come to discuss. Then the Pow Wow makes a decision, and every citizen of the tribe is free to apply it or not. Parties are (for some) or should be (for many) a community that shares common ideas, and discuss it and let everyone act freely. A party is just like a room in which people sit and discuss.

This famous disctinction between anarchism and marxism is founded by the very own concept of marx : "raise the proletarian as a dominant class". This is strictly revolutionnary : meaning like in "revolving" : things up goes down, and things down go up. These ideas are part of "The Revolt" from Albert Camus.