CCCP's Workshop.

[lucky22]

Originally posted by Pandemoniak

Anarchy si not : "doing whatever one one wants whenver one wants to ", it s about deleting hierarchy itself. See Chomsky or Highleyman for more informations.

I'm completely aware of Anarchy as a modern philosophy. There is currently a popular perversion of it as a life-stlyle here where I live, and it winds up being the same old hippie crap- total libertarianism in pseudo political disguise. This "anarchy" owes more to the Russian Anarcho-Nihilist terrorists of the late 19th and early 20th centuries than to anything approaching Marx' post-industrial ideal. Obviously, the Russian model of Nihilist was an historical harbinger of a necessary revolution, but the current manifestation keeps all the disregard for social reproduction of the conditions of existence and just about none of the requirements for depth of character. On a tactical, one-to-one in the street level, I therefore must remain a structuralist (upon which statement, I'd recommend Chomsky also, along with Louis Althusser ).

[Pandemoniak]

Foreman Pandemoniak annoucement :

Comrade Tassadar left us.

This is a painful thing to say, but our Comrade left us. I've been talking with him, and he said that he left the CCCP because he was supporting Free Market for science, and because he believe parties are dreadful for a democracy.

I answered him : we in the CCCP dont have a party line, and our party is only made to discuss marxism, but he chose to left us anyway.

[...]

Tassadar is our Comrade anyway, and I give him all my support.
May Comrades Marx and Engels be with him.

[Pandemoniak]

He hasnt been seen on any CCCP forum in many weeks, so except if tmb shows himself in the newt week, he is banned forever from the Citizen's party.

[Method]

again, not sure if he's banned completely from poly. could just be a week or something.

[Pandemoniak]

...


and thats why he's banned from both poly and the CCCP

[Method]

sorry if i made it look that way, but to my knowledge, wasn't permabanned. look here and here. apparently he made numerous posts of this nature including posts like "u suck", "u ppl r barabarians.u suck." and "the usa sux major arse...."

[Pandemoniak]

Originally posted by lucky22
I personally am not an anarchist- individual freedom is an abused concept in the modern west, and until equilibrium is restored at even the individual level, I consider a concern with "doing whatever one wants whenever one wants to" to be a decadent value. On the other hand I play AC, so obviously ideology and
practice are somewhat seperated by personal weaknesses.

Anarchy si not : "doing whatever one one wants whenver one wants to ", it s about deleting hierarchy itself. See Chomsky or Highleyman for more informations.

(I abstain on banning tmb, though I fully accept all conditions of Aplyton citizenship without reservation. If he is banned by a higher power for improper mischief, so be it)

So be it, Vendetta upon him !
(maybe I played SMAC too much ?)

[lucky22]

Under industrial capitalism, necessities such as food and optional commodities such as AC are traded for using units of the same artificial and abstracted value system. Life itself is a consumeristic reification- no one is equipped to live unless he or she is equipped to shop. FM reflects this reality in its utterly unregulated form. This irrationality is considered a reflection of "natural law" by minds raised within consumerism and with a vested interest in maintaininhg its existence.
Planned economies deal with access to resources in acute circumstances more effectively, but wind up undermined by opposed military/industrial/entertainment complexes.

I personally am not an anarchist- individual freedom is an abused concept in the modern west, and until equilibrium is restored at even the individual level, I consider a concern with "doing whatever one wants whenever one wants to" to be a decadent value. On the other hand I play AC, so obviously ideology and
practice are somewhat seperated by personal weaknesses.

Schinkenjoe writes: The crucial question is if there is a mayority to run Green

Agreed.

(I abstain on banning tmb, though I fully accept all conditions of Aplyton citizenship without reservation. If he is banned by a higher power for improper mischief, so be it)

[Pandemoniak]

Originally posted by Schinkenjoe
Sorry it seems like a silly question, but why is Planned economy always considered better ideolgically than FM ?
In both systems many persons have to fulfill the decisions of few, in Planned the decisions come from state authority, in FM from the energy monopolists.
Both aren´t economy systems of freedom.

The only advantage is that Planned can be abolished much easier than FM, but only if the control lies in hands, which want to abolish it.

Justs because the Soviets took Planned along for 70 years, we mustn´t do the same mistake. And it was a mistake, because the intention of not giving up Planned was not to give up their control over society and they justfied their rule only through productivity and terror.

The crucial question is if there is a mayority to run Green.

Your opinion ?

P.S.: that banning seems ok to me.

Well, the thing is that soviets were running on planned and police state : therefore, the planification of production and thus the planification of economy itself was made by a few controlling the others citizens. On the contrary, running under planned in a free democracy is rather like the Paris Commune : the plans are made by the state, that IS the citizens. So yes, a planned economy can free, running under democracy.

[Main_Brain]

Because we PopBoom? OH you meant Ideollgically?
nope I cant


*agress to Banning*

[Schinkenjoe]

Sorry it seems like a silly question, but why is Planned economy always considered better ideolgically than FM ?
In both systems many persons have to fulfill the decisions of few, in Planned the decisions come from state authority, in FM from the energy monopolists.
Both aren´t economy systems of freedom.

The only advantage is that Planned can be abolished much easier than FM, but only if the control lies in hands, which want to abolish it.

Justs because the Soviets took Planned along for 70 years, we mustn´t do the same mistake. And it was a mistake, because the intention of not giving up Planned was not to give up their control over society and they justfied their rule only through productivity and terror.

The crucial question is if there is a mayority to run Green.

Your opinion ?

P.S.: that banning seems ok to me.

[Pandemoniak]

If other members of the CCCP agree, I declare themagicbanana banned from the CCCP.

Originally posted by lucky22
My support for FM originally arose from a desire to reflect the process Marx and Engels referred to as "primitive accumulation"- the process whereby conquest and colonial mercantilism put all the industrial capital into place over the course of about a millenium.
Upon reflection, simulating primitive accumulation is more of a job for CIV, I'd say. Right now, I am commited to endorsing the development of successful strategies that do not employ FM. It is not much of a stretch to present that as a basic sort of challenge game.
I won't quit or anything if FM is voted in, but I'll keep letting everyone know that under FM not all the kids get equal amounts or equal qualities of Legos, and it isn't because their mums and pops are lazy sods.

Welcome Corellion!

By the way: Gnool has posted recently in at least one game-play related thread. Thorsius is likely to be around and voting (I hope) . Has any one heard from themagicbannana since he ran for every directorate?
Are you out there Thorsius and tmb?

About FM : You all know I'm more a "bakuninian" than a "marxist", though its all quite similar. Anyway, the main problem with FM is that me must eradicate the State itself before we apply it, so that we can avoid mistakes such as protectionism, governments directed by militaro-fungal lobbies, etc... The Free Markets are a good idea in itself : despite that, the theories elaborated by the Industrial Economics wont allow us to free the people freeing the markets, on the contrary. The application of theses theories involve not only ecological damage for the sake of energy, but will mostly unsatisfy our citizens.

I would sum up that shortly :
I wont support Free Market until all factions gather again, in any way.
Pandemoniak,
Conversation between Bakunin and Planet

If other members of the CCCP agree, I declare themagicbanana banned from the CCCP.

[Main_Brain]

@TKG is that quote form Fred Dales at Microsoft Corp. in
Redmond, WA. ?

[lucky22]

Ah. Many thanks, TKG.

[Method]

double login. bannable offence.