Humane Treatment of Prisoners of War

[Googlie]

Now that War has broken out it's appropriate to discuss how defeated factions' players get redistributed among the survivors.

So post thoughts here, and I'll kick off with an opinion, (not a ruling)

I think that Faction Officers and turnplayers should be required to join the conquering faction, but that ordinary "citizens" should be able to join any faction of their choice.

Of course, whether such players choose to become inert (or ert, for that matter) cannot be legislated.

Thoughts everyone??

G.

[Archaic]

I believe it would make more sense for the higher ranking faction members to be allowed to move to the faction of their choice (Seeking asylum), while the regular members are redistributed at random amongst all other factions (When you're fleeing, unless you've got special resources [al. la. what the leaders would have], you can't exactly be choosy about where you're going).

[Impaler[WrG]]

It would seem to me that Googlies sugjestion is more consistent with the Games plot line. When ever you eliminate a Faction they always say "(Insert Faction Leader) is ready for your personal Interogation" and we see them in a Punishment Sphere locked screaming. Sertainly dosn't seem to me that they have much special resorces avalible at this point.

I think that the important part is that the Concouring team or teams get the bulk of the eliminated teams members say around half with the other half being distributed. It would be most unfair for all the eliminated players to simply be alowed to join a team that was their alie and to basicaly have a second chance as what would amount to a Double team. Their needs to be in principle a break up of the team in any event with the Concourer getting the lions share of any players who wish to continue playing. That said, we should try to be acomadating to the desires of individuals to the maximum extent possible without creating any kind of unfair situation.

Cycon would be glad to have several of PEACE's core membership after our inevitable conquest is completed. We are prepared to make them full fleged member of our team as we would hope they would do for us if the situation was reversed. We would ofcorse expect them to cough up information regarding the other factions and their dealings with them (which again is consistent with "Interogating" someone with a Punishment Sphere). Gaining access to their forums though seems unlikly, But thats a matter for Google to deside.

[GeneralTacticus]

If a faction leader has been taken prisoner, they can hardly be considered to be a member of the conquering faction... after all, membership implies at least some degree of standing and government influence, which one could hardly have while being pumped for information in the Punishment Sphere.

Anyway, regarding the issue of conquered factions, I think a better way to treat it would simply be to let the members of the loser go wherever they want, unless they have made a prior agreement with the conquering faction (a kind of surrender agreement; we might even see some factions choosing to effectively merge with the conquerer by sharing forums and divulging passwords).

[Drogue]

I think another team getting information when a faction is defeated goes against the spirit of the game. If we conquer PEACE and PEACE members were to flee to another faction and help them, that is giving them a boost they are not entitled to, IMHO. I would be against that.

Seeing the shortage of players, I don't want to say they should just lose, however I think if the conquering faction decides they want them, they should be allowed to join them, as if they have been captured.

Or Googlie could roll a dice for each member, to simulate chance of escape, and those that roll as 5 or 6 have escaped and can join another faction. Those that don't can join their capturing faction, if they wish and that faction agrees, and if not they can leave.

I prefer the first option. I see them joining another faction as the same as defections. We have banned defections because of the effect it has on the game. I see this as the same. While I can see the logic in allowing the captors to allow members of the captured society to join them, as they are captured, I am strongly against them being allowed freely back into the game in any faction. That is like defections en masse, in it's consequences, and thus should not be allowed IMHO.

[Nubclear]

The reason defections were not allowed is because the defector would know all the original factions secrets...
However this does ont apply here because a PEACE member wouldn't know all of CyCons secrets.

[Snowflake]

How about this. The capturing faction gets the first chance to talk to the team members of the defeated teams. They can offer sweet deals to exchange informations and to pursuade the defeated team members to stay. For example a defeated faction leader can bargain to get a government position in exchange of sharing info or stay in the team. The rest of players can also choose to stay in the team. For those who do not want to stay, then they can be randomly distributed.

The thing is if all defeated team players are required to stay in the capturing team, they may not be willing to tell information anyway and they may not like to be a team member who defeated them. It may not be good for these players, nor for the capturing team either since it may create lots of tensions within the team.

[Drogue]

HongHu: The team can then not allow them in. It doesn't have to create tension, and I don't want other factions getting an unfair advantage, it isn't realistic nor does it go with the game.

Also, that isn't having first chance. If someone offers a sweeter deal, they take it. Add to that that the defeated faction probably doesn't particularly like the faction attacking them, and they will decide mostly to join other factions. Also, we cannot bargain with a government position, since ours, and many other factions, are elected.

Tass: No, but they would have all the information that PEACE had. Therefore if a PEACE member were to join PUT, then PUT would have the old PEACE saves, and so would be able to have the infiltration information that PEACE had, even when PUT has not infiltrated those factions. In this case, the PUT should not have the information from PEACE pacts and infiltration, but they would have. That is unfair IMHO. That is why I think members from defeated factions would either have to join the conquering faction, as they have been captured then allowed to become normal citizens, or they would be captured and killed, and thus would take no more part. The game states that you capture the opposing faction leader, and they are ready for your interrogation. Therefore, if you wished to kill them, you could.

Most team-DG's I've seen work on the principle that when you faction is defeated, you are defeated, and like a PBEM, you no longer continue to take part in it. This stops other teams getting information they shouldn't have, and skewing the game.

Look at it this way. Imagine a faction is destroyed except for it's last base. Because of the defection rule, none of the members would be allowed to leave yet. Yet when that last base is taken they would all be allowed to. What is the difference? Why is that last base so important. Looking at it realistically, you would have captured/killed some of their members at earlier bases. Realistically, defections would be allowed. I don't see why just because that faction is destroyed other factions should be able to benefit from the infiltration info of the destroyed faction. RPing there is as much a case for defections as there is for them joining other factions when they're killed. Yet we don't allow defections because of the effect they have on the game. Hence, IMHO, we shouldn't allow them to join other factions because of the effect it has on the game, and also because if anyone, they would have been captured by the team that caught them.

[Maniac]

Most team-DG's I've seen work on the principle that when you faction is defeated, you are defeated, and like a PBEM, you no longer continue to take part in it.

Indeed. But since this ACDTG isn't suffering from an abundance of active participants, it is the official Consciousness opinion that we would prefer to give members of a conquered faction the option to join their conqueror. In our specific case, this can be perfectly explained by the process of assimilation.

A pity we haven't heard the opinion of a pirate yet.

[foolish_icarus]

You should not rule out members of a defeated faction joining a team other than their conquerer. It is mostly consistent with the mechanics of the game, and more importantly, entirely consistent with the spirit of the DG. The primary goal is to provide an enjoyable experience for all. This is best served by giving some choice in which faction to join.

Firstly, joining other factions is not unfair or inconsistent. PEACE could, if we wished, now broadcast all the information we have to any other faction. So how is it wrong to bring information with us to another faction? We didn't acquire any of it illegaly. I do agree that factions opening up old saves from a defeated faction is probably inappropriate, but as long as citizens don't ALL flee to the same faction, I see nothing unbalancing, unfair, or detrimental in it.

Secondly, If you force defeated members to either join the conquering team or leave, you will, as Maniac noted, not be helping an already low participant count. And of those that do agree to join the conquerers, undoubtedly some will still be sore at getting destroyed. This will neither be fun for the conquerors or the conquered, as, even if it isn't intentional or overt, every time there is disagreement over an action, there will be distrust and possibly even hostility on both sides.
Unless of course the conquerers are willing to accept and put up with a bunch of hostile uncooperative drones, which could be very interesting , (as long as everyone regards the adversity that must necessary result as purely IC. )

[Net Warrior]

As a newer member of ACDG I realize there's lots of intercourse I've missed. From a fresh perspective then, there are two options regarding information from a defeated faction. The “the spoils of war” option would have the conquering faction being the sole beneficiary/recipient. The “the fog of war” option would have each faction gaining access to all the information. So, either all defeated faction players would have to joint the conquering faction or each faction would have to get at least one defeated faction player. Being that there is a shortage of active players, it’s most likely that option one would usually occur. So, the conquering faction would build information and active player momentum, and just run away with the game.

Therefore, a reasonable approach would be for the CMN to consult with all defeated faction players who choose to joint any of the other factions and determine what information should be passed on to all factions.

[Jamski]

I would happily join the faction of anyone who was powerful enough to beat the mighty Hive.

-Jam

[Maniac]

foolish_icarus, I agree the primary goal should be to provide an enjoyable experience for all, or at least for as many as possible. If conquered members with feelings of revenge can join another faction than their conqueror, this will increase the fun for those. However for the members of the conquering faction it would decrease the fun. After all if conquered people join other factions than thier conqueror because they don't like them, the conquered ones will probably try to influence the foreign relations of their new faction to act against their conqueror. Then the conqueror might suddenly be faced with declining relations with all other factions. That would not be desirable.
If the conquered members are spread evenly between all remaining faction, the risk of this is reduced, however in factions where there is currently a balance between Pro-Conquering Faction and Anti-Conqueror members, the addition of only one or two new people could already make a huge difference.

Unless of course the conquerers are willing to accept and put up with a bunch of hostile uncooperative drones, which could be very interesting

Might be fun indeed! After all in RL conquerors also have to find some new modus vivendi with the conquered elites (unless they kill them all of course).


Net Warrior:

So, the conquering faction would build information and active player momentum, and just run away with the game.

In our case, though we hope and expect to rise in the power graph, I doubt we're going to run away with this game just yet no matter what happens.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Maniac
Indeed. But since this ACDTG isn't suffering from an abundance of active participants, it is the official Consciousness opinion that we would prefer to give members of a conquered faction the option to join their conqueror. In our specific case, this can be perfectly explained by the process of assimilation.

I'd agree with that, if needs be. They have a stronger case for getting the infiltration of the defeated faction, in usuing their datalinks.

[moomin]

Originally posted by Maniac
thier conqueror because they don't like them, the conquered ones will probably try to influence the foreign relations of their new faction to act against their conqueror. Then the conqueror might suddenly be faced with declining relations with all other factions. That would not be desirable.

I humbly submit you're going to take a nasty relations hit anyway. In a game like this, going after anybody but the leader militarily kind of generates badwill all of its own. Generally speaking, "hit the leader" is the only safe thing in multi-polar games for inter-fractional relation building

Given how few people are actually active, it would be a tragic waste to force the few remaining players out of the game - the information problem has an easy solution; make the pirates last save (I'm assuming here they will be taken out, since we've seen precious little swashbuckling in this here forum) available to everyone. That what happens when a faction goes down; it's citizens and its knowledge gets spread all over the world.