Very late thoughts on Civ 6

[Straybow]

Hmmph, didn't even know there was a Civ VI. Hated even the sound of 1UPT, never tried V. Old computer died, never installed any Civs on laptop, no time to play...

[Jon Miller]

You can create Armies and Corps and so stack your units in some way (similar in some sense to CtP maybe?). I have been much more impressed with Civ6 (although I haven't played with the expansions yet) then I was with Civ5. I haven't looked at mobility, but I see that mods exist.

JM

[Standup]

A few names from the past. I may have to give CIV 6 another go if Jon is getting into it on the basis we're probably a similar 'vintage'.
Haven't played since the initial release when it really didn't grab me.

[labernathy]

As for me, Civilization VI is one of the best games, I've ever played.

[Jon Miller]

I have pretty much quit playing other games, and have figured out a few keys to good play (the most recent one is the importance of district planning and adjancency particularly for Industrial Zones). Because of this I think I have finally reached 'OK' at Civ6 (I only have GS and R&F). By 'OK' I mean I have a game where I am dominant in Emperor.

In my game for this weekend (I don't play most weekends, but needed a break and so started a game Friday night) I am playing Japan on an Archipelagomap. My opponents are Indonesia, Mongolia, Maori, Netherlands and Norway. I ended up starting on a major landmass which I shared with 3 city states, Indonesia and Maori. I had Aukland and another city state in the thick part of the landmass between Indonesia and I, and there was another city state between where Indonesia was and the capital city of the Maori.

Early on I had some space to settle and got down 5 cities, I also had good spots for Campus, but no religious city states or natural wonders so I ended up not building any Holy Sites and did not get a religion (very unusual for me). In the Medieval era I had met everyone and I checked the victory conditions... all of us were close to equal (Maori and Netherlands were the last, I was in 4th place). I wasn't first in science (Maori was) but it was close to parity.

I figured as Japan that I needed to use my Samurai and then get set up for a strong Industrial transformation (I had recently learned the importance of planning my Industrial Zones). My five cities were spread out, which probably has slowed me down. Anyways, I looked for Iron and didn't find any... only 1 in Aukland and 1 in Indonesian territory. My Galley was just circumventing the world, which didn't bring any more to my vision (although I have since learned that Netherlands and Mongolia also have Iron). I decided to become Aukland's Suzerain and use their Iron to build Samurai ... first I was thinking to invade Indonesia but I didn't have a navy and the other city state was next to me and was one of the great cities of the world (probably Maori had the greatest, but it looked greater than any of mine). So I decided to take it first, and then if it seemed like a good idea I would consider Indonesia... but maybe not. By the time I had collected enough iron to build three Samurai I was entering my first Golden Age (The Renaissance). I had 2 Samurai and 2 crossbowmen next to Cahokia and decided that it was now or never (my more distant Samurai and Crossbowman engaged with some of Cahokia's troops that were in the empty land between Aukland, Cahokia and Kyoto).

I took Monument as my Golden Age despite having almost no faith at the time. I planned to fight and I figured I would get one settler out of it. I ended up getting 2-3 settlers, 2-3 builders and 7 traders due to the faith of conquered Indonesian cities.

They had a couple of troops... and it took some fighting. I think I may have lost one Regiment but the Samurai were strong as they took Cahokia with the General Timur who had joined them. I decided to move on towards Indonesia... but everyone liked Cahokia and an emergency was declared while Maori, Mongolia, Norway and Indonesia declared war on me. I decided to build a few more troops, primarily with Osaka and Kyoto, and march on towards the walled Indonesian cities. I think my military was 4th in strength.

My armies killed Indonesian and Maori troops as I moved through the mountainous densely populated coastal Indonesian core. I think there was one point where I moved forward a little to quickly and the combined pressure from walled cities and the combined Indonesian and Maori troops that I lost one more Regiment. Timur was a great leader with the Samurai, and I was only kept from moving forward by killing Indonesian and Maori regiments. This was even facing the Walled Cities of Indonesia. In the rare occasions where Indonesia had an encampment, I was sure to reduce the encampment first.

During this period Maori tried to harass me by sending troops across the sea to attack Osaka. But Osaka and it's encampment were walled and they reduced the assaulting regiments... usually my Galley would go in to kill them but occasionally they would land and a Samurai or Crossbowman was redirected to kill the invaders. The same was the case after I took some of the northern Indonesian cities and the Mongolian army and navy came to invade. I also quickly built walls for the Indonesian cities. But the Mongol army mostly came against Aukland and I ended up losing no troops and expending few resources against them.

After I had defeated the main Indonesian cities I decided to invade the Maori city on an island in the sea that we all bordered. Maori only had three main cities, one that was far to the south, one on the island and the capital which was beyond Preslav. I surely was also aided by becoming the Suzerain of Preslav once I was confident of my place in Aukland. Timur and a couple of Samurai and a Crossbowman went South to eliminate Indonesia and take the Southern Maori city, while the rest (other then a couple of Crossbow Regiments who had been kept back to make sure that the Mongol invading army was destroyed) moved in for the sea invasion of the fortified Maori island city. I also changed all of my construction to preparing for Industrialization... after my dominance in Indonesia I was confident and the City State emergency was almost over so I figured the war would be winding down. Also, I didn't have a navy really... and Norway's navy was still incredibly strong.

Without Timur the fortified Maori city was a meat grinder. For some reason I was trying to rush it and didn't take down the encampment first. I first moved in the Galley to allow the other troops to get close (and so lost it). I Think continued to lose another 2 Crossbow and 2 Samurai Regiments mostly due to miscalculating when I needed to run (Although I think Norway ended up taking out one of my Samurai who had retreated to sea). These were veteran Regiments.

Thankfully Timur got to the Island shortly after Gustavus Adolphus arrived with his Bombard Regiment (which I couldn't build at the time) and we were finally able to take down the Fortifications. Gustavus Adolphus had been delayed in Kyoto or it would have gone even better. At about this time I had enough money that I could upgrade my Samurai to Musketmen and Timur raced across the straight and took the unfortified Maori capital in 2 turns with two Musketmen and a Crossbowman. I was about to research Industrialization and had basically no navy (I had upgraded the one Galley who had harassed the Mongolians and had just finished a Frigate) so I decided to make peace with everyone and end the war.

While Netherlands and Norway still have a stronger military than mine (I barely touched Norway, I think they loss two Regiments while harassing me), my empire is much stronger than anyones. Also, my tech is now above anyone but Maori and they are no longer relevant (they have two cities left with maybe 6 population). Also, the leading religions were Indonesian and Netherlands and Netherlands Apostles were in my homeland. I plan to keep my nation Hindu (the Indonesian religion) and will put some effort into that. Also, Norway has a strong lead in Civics. Both Norway and Netherlands have a stronger military than I. But my empire is strong, my tech is strong and I have a veteran army. And I have a second Golden Age (the rest of the world is normal or in a Dark Age): Heartbeat of Steam. I will build a Navy and World Wonders and be ready to pursue whatever victory I desire (that isn't Diplomatic or Religious).

JM

[Jon Miller]

For informational purposes, you want a production engine setup for most cities by the time you are entering the Industrial Era. Probably it is best to get it working at least partially earlier. There are 3 engines that I have identified.

Holy Site + 100% Policy Card + (GS) Work Ethic + Meeting House = 6-12 production from most Holy Sites
This requires specific beliefs and is not going to be available many games... also it requires a religion focus

Harbor + Commercial + City + Fish + Seaport + 100% Policy Card = 6-12 production from most Harbors
Obviously this only works for cities nearish the coast.

Industry + Aqueduct + Dam + Canal + strategic/mine/quarry/lumber mill + 100% policy card = 16-38 production from most Industry Zones
It takes a bit of planning to get it really over the 10ish point (as well as accepting pollution)

Prevoiusly I hadn't been planning districtsand so I didn't end up with good Industry Zones. Mostly it was because I didn't plan Aqueducts as those are really key (although good placement with respect to resources is also important). This created problems for my non-sea based/non-religion based games.

JM

[Jon Miller]

A fully upgraded encampment is 8 production (But this is not adjacency). So it should be included as a moderate production source like Work Ethic Holy Site, Seaport Triangle or a poor Industrial Zone.

JM

[Dinner]

I bought it but never really got into it.

[Jon Miller]

I think I am about to win on Immortal with Korea (and Huge). I have GS.

I was a bit lucky as I wasn't attacked too strongly early, I got an early religion (which I first used for Monumentality, I also got the Settler I think before the Religion), and there were no really focused Religion civilizations.

But I really didn't focus on Religion although it has been huge for me. I got 30% cheaper religious units, work ethic (to help early, I don't have many Holy Sites outside of the first cities), mosques and the worldwide science one (the last one I got).

I am getting close to dominating the world religion wise (8 civilizations are Catholic, large components of Japan and Greece are also Catholic and Japan is the founder of Buddhism which is the only other religion left, Maori is Buddhist but very small). I also have the most tech and and science, although some other civilizations are close. I am second in the Space Race, but I got museum and Goddard so I think I am very competitive there.

But the big thing is that I once more have lots of City States and I got two world wonders that helped with Diplomacy Victory. I got the one that gave me extra points per city state and the Statue of Liberty. So I have 18 Diplomatic VPs to the next 7, and there is an emergency. So that should be 2 VP more (also we will shortly vote, which might be 1-3 VP).

I have not been in any big wars. I had a bit of a serious one with Sweden and fought against England too, but generally my city states have carried me and kept me from focusing on it even when I wasn't the strongest military and was attacked (by the strongest).

I managed to cut others off and expand with Monumentality and the early Religious Settler to be by far the biggest civilization. Religion is still relatively easy if you can get Yerevan. I also mostly build religion units in my capital which has the World Wonder to get an extra conversion. My missionaries have 5 spreads.

It seems like an easy Immortal win, but I will take it, and maybe not play again until 7. Or get the last expansion (Frontier Pass) and try something silly for a Culture or Domination Diety win on Earth Map.

JM
(The game I played to finish with Japan I also could have taken a Culture or Domination Victory instead of the Science Victory, also some of the games in King that I didn't play to finish I was close to a Culture Victory.)

[Jon Miller]

This might be the best end game I have played.

First I didn’t realize they would actually focus me down on diplomacy and so I actually went -1 on the Congress instead of +1-3. In the future I will know to vote against myself to keep it at +0 ( I actually reloaded to try it out but then went back to my original save ).

JM

[Jon Miller]

Then I decided it was a problem that i only had 1 uranium ( in a colony started by a captured settler ). I was going to take one of Aztec cities (4th in tech ) but I hadn’t built planes and they fought me back with jet fighters .

Also I had foolishly done the last spread on 10 of my debater apostles and some how Japan had hidden apostles away from me and sent them back in. So while I currently am 10/12 ( just Alexander and Kupe are still Buddhist and not under the Pope ), Japan still has an active religious contest.

Finally England (2nd in tech , 1st in culture , 2nd in score, 1st in space ) joined the war against me ( 4 are at war with me ) 6 turns ago. I ignored it like I generally do ( although I have been losing city states and my city state allies seem to no longer field armies for some reason ) and then I saw that they had marched 4 giant death robots through Aztec territory to surround Yerevan.

I used my just produced plane ( the third, 4th produced because Aztec had killed one ) to kill one, but then they killed my armor and almost took out Yerevan. I then killed two more with my remaining planes but the last robot raised Yerevan! So now I am left with only 6 debater apostles.

I think I can still take the religious contest but I am going to need to be careful now.

JM

[Jon Miller]

I also think I still have space race. I have Sagan waiting and the biggest empire and 2x Goddard. I don’t have a fully upgraded governor though.

And I am currently building death robots, flood barriers, fighters and sending aid and not building more space ports.

JM

[PLATO]

Interested in how this ended up!

[Jon Miller]

My Giant Death Robots came online and I managed to take my second Uranium, from the nearby Aztec city (to my West). England had recently taken it (by Loyalty?). This allowed me to defend my allies Cahokia (the next city to the west, before England). I then moved against England but mostly just killed some troops and pillaged, I didn't feel like I would be able to take and hold any city without a significantly greater investment.

Also, I launched my spaceship with Sagan. I then had my 3 cities with Spaceports rush work on lasers (primarily). I think before the game ended I got 4 up. One of my spaceports was disrupted by an enemy spy, despite all my spies on defense.

India who was on my South East declared war on me again, but I didn't even need to defend (just like I didn't really need to defend against Sweden on my South West). I think I was at war against most of the world excepting Macedonia and Kupe (not sure about Japan or Australia). Japan was invading Macedonia.

England came at my colonies that were in the other main ocean near Kupe between England/Australia and Macedonia/Greece. The only real point of importance for these colonies were that my first source of Uranium was there. They only sent a couple of low level troops and I was able to fight them off with all the gold I was getting (I had an emergency active in my own land).

Japan brought apostles back in but my final couple of apostles managed to hold them off. I also got Macedonia to convert to the one true religion of Catholicism. I was starting to send to the final two large cities of Kupe (he had a couple of small ones that I had converted) when the game ended.

The game ended when I was the diplomacy victory that I was shooting for. This was before the final World Congress was called, and it was enabled because my Civic acquisition sped up (I had been building more culture things when I wasn't sending aid, so maybe that was it? or maybe things just sped up after the shift of ages? I think it happened after the World Congress before the last one) and I got the +1 VP from the civic tech and I got the +2 from getting first with sending aid (I think to Macedonia).

I needed 3 diplomacy VPs, and not 2 or 1 (as I had earlier) because I had fallen back by another VP by yet another World Congress. There was another +1 from Games coming up and I think there was probably another Aid (+2) some turns after that. But I think I would have won Religion (and maybe Science) before I got another diplomacy VP, I had a number of apostles/missionaries going and I just needed to make sure that Greece wouldn't be able to kill them with the troops (they were the only one who consistently focused on killing religion units, I guess England got a couple too).

No other Civ had managed to launch a Colony Ship. England had really high military so I was concerned they had some nukes somewhere, but they never used them against me.

It was a good game. I have looked at starting a couple of true earth with Ethiopia or Babylon in Deity but haven't learned much other than the importance of loyalty and agression.

JM

[Jon Miller]

Despite being at war against most civilizations for the final age (maybe two), it was really just some lost Georgian modern armies, some Greek (modern) armies hitting my missionaries/apostles (maybe while fighting Kupe and Japan), some Aztec planes (which were annoying, they destroyed some armies and some of my planes) and then a real military threat (planes, tanks and giant death robots) from England.

I guess aztec had had a lot of antitank but I just avoided them until my planes and giant death robots came online.

Oh, and I had started taking Aztec cities, I almost forgot that. It wasn't really necessary. I did so only after I moved back from pillaging England and to see if I could. Planes + Giant Death Robots work very well for taking cities in the late game.

JM
(obviously modern armies were really low level tech when I had modern armor, giant death robots, nuclear submarines and jet fighters).