Stupid Upgrade

[mkorin]

Everytime this upgrades, I think it actually gets worse. I'm playing my first game with the new upgrade. Going along fine, Friendly with everyone, not the point leader nor the solder leader or last, when boom every AI denounces me and 2 go from friendly to declaring war for no reason. Good job Firaxis on making the game unplayable.

[MxM]

Everytime this upgrades, I think it actually gets worse. I'm playing my first game with the new upgrade. Going along fine, Friendly with everyone, not the point leader nor the solder leader or last, when boom every AI denounces me and 2 go from friendly to declaring war for no reason. Good job Firaxis on making the game unplayable.

What did they list for the reason to become hostile?

[mkorin]

The reason to be hostile is because a friend denounced me. The first person who denounced me was unhappy because I made a couple wonders, coveted my land(despite being no where near it), liked the same city state as me and called me a war mongerer, which I wasn' yet.

60 turns into the hostility, I have kicked A** on one of the AIs that declared war on me. I have ignored the other except killing all he sends at me. Regardless, he won't make peace with me. I have found two new AIs that are friendly, but immediately denounce me because the others denounced me. All this means is that no one will trade with me including research agreements. I can except the first guy being pissed (not really), but everyone else to jump on the band wagon and make me play 1 against 10 is not enjoyable nor good game balance. This is the same thing that happened at the last patch and Firaxis corrected it right away. My guess is that they made the same mistake and that is unexcusable. Everyone makes mistakes and I can live with those, but to repeat one is just not paying attention. I hope they repatch the patch quickly.

[mkorin]

Furthermore, they have made it impossible to take a city. Between the healing power of the cities and huge penalty on horseman, unless you can surround the city and hit it all at once you have no chance. So, if the city is surrounded by water or mountains, it is impervious. Do they have play testers? Thank god the Mac version is one behind so I can still enjoy the game on my Mac

[Nikolai]

You don't use horses to take a city. You use archers and melee units, and the occational catapult. Taking cities is easy.

[mkorin]

Nikolai, have you tried to take a city with the new patch. Regardless of units, I am getting my a** handed to me. Granted, I like horses so I have mostly knights, but I have swordsman and still can't get enough hits on the city before it's attack and healing destroys me.

[Nikolai]

Yes. I've done so multiple times. Another beta have won the Mongol scenario on deity numberous times. And that scenario is all about taking cities. In my last game, completed yesterday, I conquered each city in 2-3 turns. That was in the late renaissance, but it's no problem doing it earlier on either. It's easy really.

You just cannot use horse units to take cities, they are not meant to do that. They are for mopping up the units outside the cities. To take a city, you need 2-3 archers and 2-4 melee units, depending on terrain and policies. A catapult would make your win even easier.

[mkorin]

I guess I need to change my strategy, I used to like the attack and wheel to allow the next horseman to attack. I'll build more melee and cats. However, I stick to my first statement, the diplomacy is hosed.

[mkorin]

To be honest, the AIs are hosing each other as much as me. It's fair, just stupid and wrecks the game unless you want perpetual war.

[mkorin]

85 turns into hostility, two more AIs DOW despite being no where near me. Also have been warned by three AIs for being to close to their border. I don't even know where there border is let alone having any troops close to it.

[Jiks]

In all honesty, I have found the diplomacy a lot more rational post-patch, rather than less. When everyone fell out with you, did you by chance have a points lead but a weak military? Lots of strategic resources of which the instigator had zero remaining? All these things, as well as proximity seem to be the fastest way to get into trouble in my experience.

On the city capture issue, it is still far too easy IMO to take them. Simply weaken the city HP's sufficiently with ranged units then smash it in one turn with 3 longswords or whatever. Catapults, trebs, etc now have 30% bonus vs cities even before promotions so as long as you keep them protected any city will go down in no time.

[Jaybe]

Personally, I think there should be MORE wars, but mostly of limited scope. Just for added realism.

[Zoetstofzoetje]

In my latest game, I had a very moderate VP lead over everybody else (40 points minimum, 150 points maximum, 500 points as average). *Exactly* 30 turns before the end of the game, all six of them decide to declare war on me at the same time. Even though we were BFF all the time, in all cases except one. Sounds scripted to me.

[Nikolai]

That has never happened to me. I have completed three or four games since the patch came out. I guess you were unlucky or very weak military?

[Jaybe]

In my just-finished game, Alex built the UN and had ALL the remaining CS allied. The turn he builds it I ask the most powerful military to join in war against him.

Of course, he wants 10 turns to prepare. "The game will be OVER in 10 turns, you idiot!" I scream. The next turn all the remaining civs ask me to join in the crusade against Alex. Of course, I tell them all "give me 10 turns to prepare."

As the last "of course," I must tell you Alex won (he had HUGE gold reserves).