What would you like to see in a MoM 2?

[aaglo]

Floating cities? Cool!

Then we would definitely need some special resources in the oceans.

[Gonzalo Nieva]

What I want to see is the box on a retail store.

Have You played Age of wonders 2?. It is a true succesor to MoM with a lot of thing in common and excelent gameplay.

[bakalov]

I played AoW2 for a little time - The only thing that I didn't like there was the very long battles that occur sometimes ....

[MariOne]

I bought AoW and played it a little bit because at the time I was all committed to SMAC.
I boguth later AoW2 but never actually playet it yet.

I told the same thing in the off-topic MoM thread in the MoO3 forum (), and they replied me that in case AoW is much more reminiscent of HoMM than of MoM.
As I had never even seen a demo of HoMM I finally found and got last week HoMM Platinum colleciton which is a 6-pack with all the versions and addons prior to the current HoMM IV one.

But it will be sometime before I really test it, as I'm trying to lower the time I spend in gaming, and anyway the first new game I'll be going to play is MystIII-Exile which I got in 2001 and never found the time yet to properly dedicate to, after having only browsed halfway thru the first age...

[Gonzalo Nieva]

Maybe the only thing we lack about MM2 is the name, just compare AOW2 with this list of wishes, it´s almosts identical. Feature to feature, AOW2 is MOM2, the only things it doesn't have are artifact creation and a random map generator.

[MariOne]

GN, I only played the first campaign of AoW, and bought AoW2 but didn't find the time to play it yet.

I'd agree with you according to my firsthand limited experience.

I was only reporting the opinions of players much more into the genre than me, and knowing in detail several titles in it that I only know by name...

[NeOmega]

I always think about MoM 2..... and I have a VERY strong gut feeling it is Firaxis' next project.
(type in Master of Magic 2 on the AT&T search, your are at infogrames website, first choice, allthough I could not see those words....)
Also, if any time to release a fantasy game would be good, now would be it.... Lord of the Rings in the theaters helps the case.
Firaxis is working on a game, but have not announced it yet, and they do own the rights



anyways MoM2

the original MoM2 had a 3-d map. That would be neat.
In fact from the early screenshots, it looked like it was all one giant map, (with a fog of war to preserve memory), but no tactical map, the battles would be faought on the 3-d map!

A. I would like to see that.
B. I would like to see castles being able to be built and used in tactical battle.
C. I would like to see a scenario editor.... to make missions.
D. I would like to see a walk through town function, so you could chit chat with your peasants.
E. More planes...... including underworld, demon, and summoning planes.
f. I would rather have an excellent AI than multiplayer.
H. Sometimes you could go into a den, and run circles around a large slow beast with an archer until it was dead, I'd like for there to be a retreat option, so the battle could carry on into the next level if the beast could get to the edge of the map. (this may have been in the original)
I. I would prefer NO RTS, but if it had to have it, my preference would be for Baldurs Gate style pausible RTS.
J. I like the idea of the artifacts..... I think it was MOO 2 that had the X's you had to collect? (Never played MOO2)
K. Perhaps weapons forging, and units that take the actual number of citizens out of the city. So on the tactical screen, a unit of 100 elven archers would be represented by a unit of 100 elven archers, and once the 100 elven bows were fashioned, the elven city of Silverdale would lose 100 population.
L. Actual icon stockpiles of gems, gold, adamantium and mithril. In civ 3 you connect to Iron, you have iron for all your units. In MoM2 you would have a road to iron, and would only have enough to forge 52 swords (1 a week), with a mine 104 (2 a week), with an ironworks 208. Then you could stockpile what you didn't use and trade it, for gold perhaps, maybe a trade of food for iron, etc.....
M. four seasons, I want snow battles.
N. I would rather have the concept of you being a god than a wizard.
O. Make a victory condition, achieving god-hood, and joining the rest of the gods.
P. I never played SMAC, but I think MoM 2 would be a great candidate for the unit workshop thing.... it would be even more fun to be able to outfit any soldier from the streets with the "Axe of Fiery Death" and "Helm of Golden Wings" and then hand the soldier next to him a pair of old boots.
Q. Total Annihilation Kingdoms had this thing where as units gained more experience and kills they would have parts of them turn gold.
R. A kill count for each individual
S. The ability, or automatic ability, to award medals to soldiers for a host of glorius feats, from slaying 10 orcs to healing 5 men, to winnign when the odds were against you
T. Ability to name terrains, I wanna rename those snowy plains the Red River plains after the bloody battle where my army was sent into retreat.
U. Dragon Knights!
V. Kensai and Ninjas (I love ninjas).
W. other than that the game was damn near perfect already!

Hmm.... I kinna liked this game..... and I think about it still all the time, allthough now it really is too old, andthat AI to crappy for me to care to play the original.

[Rex Little]

Originally posted by NeOmega
I would rather have an excellent AI than multiplayer.

YES! YES!!!

[Sikander]

Originally posted by NeOmega

f. I would rather have an excellent AI than multiplayer.

This is the problem with Civ 3. They went for the good AI, and that presents a major problem for the game design. Namely everything we as humans like about a game tends to add orders of magnitude to the complexity of the game, which in turn makes writing the AI and computing it all that much more difficult. This is the reason that some damned fine games like SMAC and MoM had "bad" AIs (which under the circumstances were actually pretty good), while we find Civ 3 boring and linear, though the AI is improved. There is no way that the AI could compete against your ability to figure out how to use the spells, beasts, magic items, and heroes in wicked combinations. This unfortunately isn't going to change soon. Computing power is going up fairly quickly, but the complexity of a game like MoM is such that we need years of advances to bring complex game AI up to the level of a beginner chess game.

[MariOne]

Originally posted by NeOmega
W. other than that the game was damn near perfect already!

HAH! "Other than THAT", how funny!

You took the heart out of MoM and turned it inside out like a glove....
Many of your proposals are just eyecandy, and those which are not are instead asking to change the very same things which characterise MoM and make it what it is and make us loving it.
Other changes bring in concepts form other genres which look to me totally unrelated and irrelevant to MoM gameplay.

They could be acceptable in general, and they make probably for an interesting game, but I don't think the result would have anything to do with MoM more than with any other "game" in general.

That's my skindeep opinion, anyway

For the rest, I agree with Sikander, as always

[NeOmega]

Sikander:
yah I am aware that the more complex the game, the weaker the Ai will be.
Something even more interesting, beleive it or not, alot of my civ III skills I got from watching how the AI worked. I am very impressed with the AI, and you will notice in 1.14f it even identifies and fortifies in choke points.

But, Speak for yourself when you say "we" find civ III boring and linear, I have enjoyed immensley all the games I have played for more than two hours, regardless of victory or defeat

MariOne

I bought Master of Magic twice only wipeout for the Playstation have I ever done that before.

I was being a bit sarcastic, seeing how Master of Magic is by far my favorite game of all time.

And yes, most of my suggestions are eye candy.... but I have a real bad sweet tooth when it comes to graphics.

[Sandman]

Some thoughts:

I don't think that adding even more planes will improve the game. It's would be better to have two well thought out, interesting planes than a ton of lower quality planes. I do think that there should be more ways to travel between planes, such a whirlpool like in Heroes3, gates which are one-way, hidden gates which can only be found with spells and entrances which can only be used by a hero carrying a certain item (a bit like the Cave of Wonders in Aladdin).

I think that it should be possible to integrate heroes into units, giving the unit extra abilties and the hero protection.

There should be a new type of unit; swarms. These consist of large numbers of small creatures, i.e bats, ravens, imps, maggots, snakes etc

Units should be upgradable.

The beastmen are a rather sorry bunch of fantasy leftovers. Bin them.

The Nomads should definitely have cities, not moveable camps. It's their culture that's nomadic, but they can still have cities, a bit like the Mongols.

A spherical map. I'm usually out on a limb with this, but I'd love to see a civ-style game get some meaningful 3D treatment.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by NeOmega

But, Speak for yourself when you say "we" find civ III boring and linear, I have enjoyed immensley all the games I have played for more than two hours, regardless of victory or defeat

Myself, and about half of the people at Apolyton it seems. I played Civ 3 for about a week before I put it away for good. It's almost the same old game, with "improved" graphics (I'd actually prefer Civ 2 graphics, no animation of embarrassing cavemen who look like they belong on a console game, and wonder movies as a bonus), and severely diminshed gameplay for the human. Playing Civ 3 I felt like a special olympian in a race with my peers (the AI). There were simply no alternatives to playing the same game as the AI, and playing that game every time. Worse, like the special olympics everyone gets a ribbon, or in this case everyone gets to catch up to you as you cool your heels waiting to be allowed to research once again. You are basically forced to play the world's worst wargame against the AI, and your strategic options are reduced to one, attrition. There was nothing I liked about this game after the opening movie. I'll give it away to the first person who sends me a postage paid package for it.

[MariOne]

I dunno whether it's more or less than half and how should be that representative.

I know that for how many CivIII enthusiasts that dwell in ACS CivIII forums, there is also a non-negligible population who share Sikander and mine opinion.
And this is not "simply" about personal preferences.
That is, of course this is just *our opinion*, but it's not a "just because", it is grounded upon motivated arguments, which you might not agree upon but which give solid reasons for our statements.

Personally, I endured 2-3 months before shelving it... maybe I have a slower PC
Sad thing, is that the game is disappointing (to many...) DESPITE the new concepts introduced.

Anyway, it's no use to rekindle CivIII wars also in this MoM forum
Face it, as we know that there are many who like CivIII, as well you should live with the fact that when one of us says that "we" don't like CivIII, this "we" doesn't encompass you but nevertheless there are *enough* of "us" to justify the use of "we" in general

[MariOne]

More constructively:

I like Sandman thoughts about planes.

What I don't like about his and NeOmega thoughts on units, is that much of what you propose is "somehow" already provided by the game as it is.

The units can indeed be customised/upgraded: by the use of unit spells.
You can take any normal unit and make it flying or swimming, stronger in attack/defense, provide it with peculiar immunities, etc...
I agree that you might revamp the way those spells are to be cast/maintained, to allow for larger and easier manageable armies of units with the same enhancements ("design"...)
But I don't see importing SMAC-like unit workshop would do any good to the idea itself of MoM units, which are not made of components but directly of different levels of the same Stats and different Attributes.

Also, the game *already* provides a Hero/units "integration", in that the units stacked with a Hero can gain some benefit in experience / combatstats, if the Hero has the appropriate skills...
This even works with some special units (Angels, Paladins), and not just with Heroes...

In summary, I'd be one of those contented of a Windows porting/updating and a modernisation of the user interface, without changing the mechanics in the first place.
THEN, I agree that the game would also benefit of additions and new concepts, but those should not change the game more than its, say, 20-30%. Imho of course.

What woud tell a real MoM2, from a
JustAnotherGenericFantasyTBS2 (of which we had several examples in all this meanwhile)????
I *humbly* suggest that we should not forget to keep this in mind when we talk about a MoM2...