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MOD: Patch suggestion MOD (PtW version)

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  • Citation from Crackers PTW-Review on Civ-fanatics:
    No technical review of this feature could begin with any other description other than a totally illogical, unbalancing, and disruptive feature of game play that favors the human player over all the computer rivals in the game. A captured slave worker with virtually no cost can build an improvement that used to cost 160 shields (80 if militaristic). Plus the airports in towns had a maintenance cost of 2 units of gold per turn and produced 1 unit or pollution per turn whereas the airfields have no maintenance costs and produce no pollution.

    The default implementation allows airfields to be built in mountains where it was impossible to build cities and airports in the past. There is no minimum spacing requirements for airfields and you can build them solid across a patch of desert build railroads up to this “transporter pad” that will let you move massive groups of military units around the map instantly with virtually no cost.

    It is hard to be kind in the assessment of this added feature. The airfield does not seem to have a balance of cost, benefit, and function that fall into line with the expected strategic choices and planning that a strategy game player might be expected to make. With this feature in the games, any game play events beyond the discovery of Flight become little more than pure farce when human players have access to exploit the bugs and flaws in this implementation.

    Comment


    • Of course, he forgot to mention, that in place were you built airfiled, you can't build Mine, or Irrigration.

      And, that normally, for best utility of territory, human players should have 3 tiles city spacing, which leaves not too much room for many airfileds.

      So, I won't say that it's completly unbalanced, as he claimes.
      (and you can't do to much by moding exept some drastic changes like removing them from the game)


      P.S.
      And city Airports still make Veteran, planes, crucial when attacking enemy cities defended with interceptors.

      Comment


      • Actually Mines and Irrigation can be used in connection with airfields.

        Cracker continues to state:
        "Airfields cause the base terrain improvements or irrigation and mines to be replaced. The terrain improvement replacement behavior is hard coded internally within the software and cannot be configured in the editor. You can then reinstall the irrigation and mines underneath the Airfield and the Airfield will continue to function, plus you will get the benefits of the extra terrain improvement."

        It is possible to do something about airfields by modding. For example in the current GOTM - Carthage (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/go...tart_PTW.shtml) the worker turns needed to construct one are changed to 288 turns. This effectively sets the time required for an individual worker to build an airfield at three times the number of turns required for the same worker to clear the jungle from a terrain square in the early game. Airfields are also restricted to only being built on Desert, Plains, Grassland, and Tundra. You may stack workers in crews to build airfields in less elapsed time but the first worker will still die in a construction accident when the Airfield is completed. (BTW: Radar Towers have also been changed. The base worker task turns required to build Radar Towers have been increased from 1 up to 48. This effectively sets the time required for an individual worker to build a Radar Tower at eight turns in the modern age. You may stack workers in crews to build Radar Towers in less elapsed time but the first worker will still die in a construction accident when the Radar Tower is completed.)

        I like your mod very much player 1 and I would love to see these changes implemented to make SP games in PTW more balanced and challenging.

        Comment


        • Hmm...

          You can build Irrigration or Mine after the Airport is built on same tile.

          Have you tested this?

          If that's true then it sounds like BUG.

          Please report it to 1.21f patch bug-thread.

          Comment


          • small news item:
            version of this MOD at www.civ3.com is also updated to reflect all recent changes done in this forum (current 1.22)

            Comment


            • I'll soon make one very small update of the MOD.

              Since in this mod, Bomber has increased operational range of 8, it looked slightly starge to me to have Tactical Nuke with lower range then that.

              So I'll increase Tac. Nuke's bombard range from 6 to 8.

              Comment


              • Version 1.23 is out!

                Just minor changes:

                Since Bombers in this MOD have operational range of 8, it seamed strange to leave Tactical Nukes with shorter range of 6. That's why I now increased bombard range of Tactical Nukes to 8 tiles.

                I also fixed inconsistency of having Helicopters with longer range then Jet Fighters by putting operational range of Helicopters back to 6 tiles. Paratroopers still have airdrop range of 8, since they are carried by long range aircrafts, not helicopters.


                Note: Since BIX format is same for both 1.14f and 1.21f PtW patch, you could use this MOD with 1.14f patch too.

                Comment


                • player1,

                  this mod truly should be the base of all mods.
                  I just make some comments now.

                  -IMO you should comment in the readme and the topicheader that loading cruise missiles onto transports is actually a cheat because the AI can't do this because of the 'cruise missile AI strategy' limitations.

                  -You should reconsider whether lethal fighter units is a good idea. I say this because the AI will never get the tactical benefits from lethal bombing fighters (finishing off badly damaged units with them). They mostly use them for tile bombing. The AI routines sadly can't 'see' the usefulness of lethal bombing fighters.


                  Anyways, superb work.

                  Comment


                  • -You should reconsider whether lethal fighter units is a good idea. I say this because the AI will never get the tactical benefits from lethal bombing fighters (finishing off badly damaged units with them). They mostly use them for tile bombing. The AI routines sadly can't 'see' the usefulness of lethal bombing fighters.
                    Now, the problem is that this would need a lot of changes in fighter stats to make them balanced again, plus I think that some players like lethal fighters too much (and I don't want to disapoint them).

                    I could, for same reasons, disallow artillery too, since AI doesn't know to use it well, but it would also be a bad idea.

                    Anyway, I still don't know what to do with this one.


                    P.S.
                    I think that some players reported that AI used lethal fighters against ships to sink them, but I'm not 100% sure.
                    (probably because there are no tile improvements in the sea)

                    -IMO you should comment in the readme and the topicheader that loading cruise missiles onto transports is actually a cheat because the AI can't do this because of the 'cruise missile AI strategy' limitations
                    I don't think it's a necesasry since that "feature" by itself is not part of this MOD. It happens in vanilla PtW too.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by player1
                      I could, for same reasons, disallow artillery too, since AI doesn't know to use it well, but it would also be a bad idea.


                      Originally posted by player1
                      Anyway, I still don't know what to do with this one.
                      Don't take it too serious. It was just some kind of an 'instant tought'.

                      Originally posted by player1
                      I don't think it's a necesasry since that "feature" by itself is not part of this MOD. It happens in vanilla PtW too.
                      Yes i now that.
                      Suggested just to make your readme 100% perfect.



                      1 more question.
                      Haven't you tought about playing a little with fighter defense stats yet?

                      As it is now, sending fighters to shoot down defending interceptors isn't a very effective thing because the interceptor has 2× odds.
                      What do you think about increasing the defense rating of fighter-class units some?

                      Comment


                      • Haven't you tought about playing a little with fighter defense stats yet?
                        I just don't think it's a necessary.

                        P.S.
                        And, on the other hand, when you are making land assault you try to have higher number of units then defender.

                        So I don't think it's the probelm if it gets carred out in the air too.

                        Comment


                        • Version 1.24 is out!

                          Comments to changes in v1.24

                          MOD has been made compatible with v1.27f PtW patch.
                          And that's all.

                          Comment


                          • Conquests version of Patch Suggestion MOD has been released.

                            Link:

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