On the Utility and Use of Marines

[Ekanata]

Originally posted by nbarclay
Marines in the real world DO NOT engage in amphibious assaults directly against well-defended cities. Rather, they go after a relatively undefended stretch of beach to establish a beachhead to bring in heavier forces.

The reason marines are used so rarely in Civ 3 is that there is almost always undefended beach available to land on without having to use them. Thus, their rightful role of securing a beachhead to bring in heavier forces is denied them.

Nathan

For his idea to work, I think non-amphibious should have their defence rating lowered by the turn they land (recovered on the next turn), making them an easy target for nearby enemy unit. Therefore, even modern armor and mech inf should be landed together with marine to avoid being ambushed by 'near by' enemy (btw, they already have railroad)

And for this scenario, I think marine should be a defender instead of an attacker.

[PrinceBimz]

Some good stuff here!

[Ekanata]

Originally posted by Ekanata

...to avoid being ambushed by 'near by' enemy (btw, they already have railroad)

And to cut enemy's railroad, we can bring in bombers, or battleships

[bbaws]

They also constitute a superb rapid reaction force in conjunction with paratroops and helos.

[bbaws]

The game I've got running at the moment is up to 1981, into future tech 3. I'm still building marines. In conjunction with mech inf armies landed with a nice pile of cruise missiles they really are earning their keep as far as GL creation goes.

[Hopdevil007]

helo/marine combination

i personally rarely use marines except in conjunction with helecopters. The marine has a higher attack than the infantry making it better for an offensive helocpter deployment. generally using marines in this "airborn" fashion is only good for one thing against an equally or more scientifically advanced civ. by deploying the marines farther away from your city radius it gives you a few extra tiles deeper to plunder in enemy territory. using this against cavaly and rifleman defences can have spectacular results. when fast moving cavalry units try to advance to behind your lines they will be thinned out as they pass by your marines, making them easy clean-up for the slower moving marines. if underdeveloped nations exist in the game i usually keep 15 marines, 5 infantry, and 5 helo's on standy incase they get any ideas. this force can be quicky deployed and reinforced. the only downside is that it can only be deployed withing four tiles of a city radius. but once the first city is taken, its open season. ive also used this to avoid enemy naval units in island hoping situations. mostly i use this as a vanity. i like the idea of deploying with helocopters and i usually find room for it in my defense budget. i would like it and use it more if you could deploy helos on carriers or some other kind of naval unit.

[Mad Bomber]

Originally posted by Theseus
I think in MP we'll see massive invasion forces that dwarf any contemplated here.

Surprise attack:
20 Battleships
4-6 Destroyers looking for Subs
6-8 Carriers, each with 1 JF and 3 Bombers
Redundancy:
16 Marines for a direct attack
16 Infantry and 32 Tanks for a Hill landing

And vice versa: Homeland defense will be a much more critical issue...

Back OT: I still haven't used Marines in a meaningful way.

But I will. Semper Fi.

my last invasion force consisted of:
15 carriers
25 Battleships
32 Destroyers
16 Nuc subs
90 Air units (most F-15's)
41 transprots (full)
120 MA's
60 MI's
6 Armies
50 (or so) Radar Arty.
23 marines
21 Paratroopers

An Invasion should not be done half-a$$ed, When your enemy has 100+ MI's and about 50 MA's you had better be ready to come with your entire inventory.

Cant wait to unleash an invasion like this on a player in MP.


Marines are only usefull in getting the invasion force ashore or attacking lightly defended targets.

[johncmcleod]

I didn't read the entire thread, so if this has already been stated I'm sorry. I'm also sorry for bumping the thread. I know how a lot of people on Apolyton hate having to read a useless paragraph.

What if there isn't any elevated terrain very close to the city? This is common. And if it is 2,3, or 4 tiles away from the city, during the time you are moving there the opponent has plenty of time to get to your stack of units and attack/bombard the crap out of it. And in multiplayer, landing a force of infantry and cavalry, who also don't have as good attack, near the city and possibly with no defense bonuses, will not work. The stack will get killed. And with marines, you can take multiple cities and airlift a ton of units to those cities in ONE TURN. This would be a big help.

[CerberusIV]

One thing I have noticed since patching to 1.21 is that one tile islands are now appearing on my maps (standard size, continents).

In the last game I played into the modern age, the babs had a city on such an island defended by 2 riflemen. Marines were the only way to take that city (and the babs) out.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Mad Bomber


my last invasion force consisted of:
15 carriers
25 Battleships
32 Destroyers
16 Nuc subs
90 Air units (most F-15's)
41 transprots (full)
120 MA's
60 MI's
6 Armies
50 (or so) Radar Arty.
23 marines
21 Paratroopers

An Invasion should not be done half-a$$ed, When your enemy has 100+ MI's and about 50 MA's you had better be ready to come with your entire inventory.

Cant wait to unleash an invasion like this on a player in MP.


Marines are only usefull in getting the invasion force ashore or attacking lightly defended targets.

hi ,

great , if that is spotted around the corner , in a nice little stack , .....

its nuke time

have a nice day

[Mad Bomber]

Originally posted by panag


hi ,

great , if that is spotted around the corner , in a nice little stack , .....

its nuke time

have a nice day

Do that and say goodbye to 25-40 cities and all resources cut. Go ahead and make my day!

[Panag]

Originally posted by Mad Bomber



Do that and say goodbye to 25-40 cities and all resources cut. Go ahead and make my day!

hi ,

well it still is the best way to get rid of large invasion fleets , ...... and the moment you move from military to civilian targets , .....

have a nice day

[TheArsenal]

Don't use marines much. But like them when I do. I find (on large/huge maps at least) the AI considers seaboard cities close to the poles and/or far from rival borders relatively "safe" and that they are as a rule relatively under-defended. This makes staging two front invasions far easier (I always try to fight the AI on at least two fronts) because a transport of marines finds the third defender or so in these cities to be a fairly obsolete, easily defeated unit. With proper numbers, I can take and fortify three or four staging cities on the civ's backside and rush build airports for the continuation of the war.

Now, if someone can only convince me paratroopers are worth the build.

I agree with some of the rumbling about warfare in the modern age. I play with UN and spaceship victories turned off, so some of this is my fault. But once I am at the point I can build MA, I have so many cities, with such high production, it becomes a game sheer brute force: build a ton of MAs and go smashing my way into cities by sheer superior numbers.

[Panag]

Originally posted by TheArsenal
Don't use marines much. But like them when I do. I find (on large/huge maps at least) the AI considers seaboard cities close to the poles and/or far from rival borders relatively "safe" and that they are as a rule relatively under-defended. This makes staging two front invasions far easier (I always try to fight the AI on at least two fronts) because a transport of marines finds the third defender or so in these cities to be a fairly obsolete, easily defeated unit. With proper numbers, I can take and fortify three or four staging cities on the civ's backside and rush build airports for the continuation of the war.

Now, if someone can only convince me paratroopers are worth the build.

I agree with some of the rumbling about warfare in the modern age. I play with UN and spaceship victories turned off, so some of this is my fault. But once I am at the point I can build MA, I have so many cities, with such high production, it becomes a game sheer brute force: build a ton of MAs and go smashing my way into cities by sheer superior numbers.

hi ,

para's , well lets see , you have a border city and like to know if your enemy is building up to attack you , send one in to see what moves around , ........

great to land on key strategic locations like mountains or hills , or just to block that important rescource , .....

have a nice day

[Jaybe]

An effective (and FUN) use of marines is to:
1) Bombard coastal tile improvements
2) When workers come to repair tile improvements, take workers with marines, loading captured workers onto transports
3) Support marines (if desired) with MI

After a few times of this, the AI will cease repairing improvements. Whether this is because they have "learned" not to lose more workers or because they HAVE no more workers ....

Of course, your raiding forces will more likely survive if opposing ground forces are being distracted by other ground action.

Note: If your transport(s) were full of marines and supporting troops and you put captured workers on them, you may not have room to extract your troops from the raiding site.