MOD: Patch suggestion MOD

[kettyo]

Originally posted by Killerdaffy
Probably right, but then, how many cannons could you fit on a sloop or barque?

I haven't played this magnificent game for long years but i think sloop carries 64, barque 96, and frigate 128 cannons max.

[alexman]

player 1,

Two things that came from the discussion in the Strategy forum:

1) Great Wall. It's a weak wonder. Giving it walls in every city in the continent would make it worth building. It would also benefit the AI, who tries to build it as soon as possible. After construction, the core of an empire is usually mostly cities. This change would benefit newly-build or conquered towns at the outskirts of your empire, just like the real Great Wall!

2) AI offense flag for MI. I think it should stay. I think that infantry flagged for attack by the AI will not be upgraded to MI otherwise. The AI will still not build attack MI from scratch because tanks are a better deal. But it will upgrade attack infantry, giving it better attack and mobility, which will help it since the upgrade cost is small.

What do you think?

[player1]

Originally posted by alexman
2) AI offense flag for MI. I think it should stay. I think that infantry flagged for attack by the AI will not be upgraded to MI otherwise. The AI will still not build attack MI from scratch because tanks are a better deal. But it will upgrade attack infantry, giving it better attack and mobility, which will help it since the upgrade cost is small.

What do you think?

I think that it WILL be upgraded, as far as I have playtested.
(Did someone noticed the opposite?)


Now, only thing I'm not sure about, is what strategy those units will get?

1) offense: They will be only offense Mech. Inf. units in the game (new units will always be defensive). Not big deal since AI would othervise attack with old Infantries.

2) deffense: AI will have more defensive units, which would trigger building of more Tanks. Also good option.

So in anyway, it's OK if they stay without offense AI flag.

Originally posted by alexman
1) Great Wall. It's a weak wonder. Giving it walls in every city in the continent would make it worth building. It would also benefit the AI, who tries to build it as soon as possible. After construction, the core of an empire is usually mostly cities. This change would benefit newly-build or conquered towns at the outskirts of your empire, just like the real Great Wall!

Usuly I try not to change stats for Wonders, but I'll think about this one.

[alexman]

Well, you were right.

The AI actually upgrades attack Infantry even if the upgrade does have the offense flag. It uses the upgraded unit for defense. Soren answered that question in the general forum.

So the question is now, do we want upgraded infantry to continue to attack as MI, or do we want to make the AI shift its balance from attack to defense and thus have to build more offensive units?

I think the answer depends on the situation. If the AI is not at war, the extra units will be a drain on his economy. But if it's at war, it should definitely stop building defensive units and build more offensive units.

In any case, good job, player 1!

[player1]

As for Great Wall, it has normally "Doubles defense rating of cities" flag.

So what exaclty that means?

Is is sum of wall and city bonuses or what?

[=DrJambo=]

Ideas here:

Have a modern infantry unit, which the offensive/defensive infantry can upgrade to and remain offensive or defensive. Leave Mech Inf as defensive, as they should be. Tanks always take precidence because of their higher movement value, plus, if you put modern infantry with ecology, then MA follow soon after and will be the dominant offensive unit.

Check out my updated mod for more info if you wish.

J

Make the Great Wall give Walls to all cities on the continent, then make it cost 400..

[player1]

Of course that would need adding of new unit and graphics.

So it porbably won't be done.

[alexman]

Originally posted by player1
Is is sum of wall and city bonuses or what?

It's only the wall bonus. Mike B. confirmed that. Check out the GW thread in the strategy forum.

[kettyo]

Originally posted by player1
As for Great Wall, it has normally "Doubles defense rating of cities" flag.

So what exaclty that means?

Is is sum of wall and city bonuses or what?

It just doubles the anti-barbarian defense value of the city where the wonder was built. So it's completely useless!

I vote for giving walls on continent too! (as i've done it in my version of your mod player1)

[=DrJambo=]

Originally posted by player1
Of course that would need adding of new unit and graphics.

So it porbably won't be done.

Not necessarily so, but i understand the nature of your mod and so this may not be desired.

Anyway, for your interest, what i did was combine the para and marine together (10,8,1) and gave it the amphibious/airdrop ability (range 8). THis unit was called the marine but used the para's art/animation. Make the new marine need just rubber so the AI will build them when they can't build tanks (only time they will build them btw).

This then freed up the marine's art/animation which was then used for the modern infantry. I mean from the AI's perspective, having 2 relatively obsolete units (para and marine) is really daft. They only build marine's when they don't have oil!

This way you get quite an effective, special-purposes unit in the marine and a very useful late-game modern infantry which the AI most definitely uses well. Plus the helicopter has more purpose.

[lockstep]

Player1, I catched a bug in both your mod and alexman's AU mod: Contrary to tanks and modern armors, the Panzer doesn't have the 'wheeled' flag.

[player1]

Thanks for bug report!

.

.

Now,
Something about Great Wall & City Walls combo:

Has anybody tested what happens, when Great Wall becomes obsolete.

Will you keep city walls built before wonder?
Will "virtual city walls" disapear?

I ask this, because, there is not single wonder in Civ3 with similar "gives building in all cities" ability, which ever becomes obsolete.

So I don't know how is that supposed to work.
Or will it work?

[lockstep]

Originally posted by player1
Has anybody tested what happens, when Great Wall becomes obsolete.

Will you keep city walls built before wonder?
Will "virtual city walls" disapear?

Hmm ... at least, Civ3 is able to distinguish between improvements that have been built and improvements that have been granted for free. The former still show their maintenance costs in the city view; when you sell them, the improvement stays, but the maintenance disappears.

[player1]

Just tested!

It should work well.


Anyway, I plan to change army cost back to 400 shields, but make Military Academy doesn't need victorious army.

What do you think?



Other thing I am wondering about is increasing cost of Ironclads to 100 to make them more destinctive compared to Frigates.

Of course only downside I can think of is that Ironclad to Destroyer upgarde would be a little cheap (40gp without Workshop).
But, I don't think it will be serious problem.

[lockstep]

Originally posted by player1
Anyway, I plan to change army cost back to 400 shields, but make Military Academy doesn't need victorious army.

What do you think?

, as you may have guessed already from the AU mod thread.

If I were allowed to change one - and only one - rule of standard Civ3, this would be my choice.