MOD: Patch suggestion MOD

[player1]

And it's a little diffcult to do enough damage in first blow.
(to invade with Armor)

Which makes couterattck more an option (MP speaking).
And devastating: ARTILLERY CAPTURE!!!!!!!!!!


P.S.
Historicaly, modern Artillery is a mobile force.

[Ultraman]

Agree completely that Radar Arty should have a movement of two. It's an MLRS, or at least tracked arty. These units today can "shooot", then "scoot" out of the way before counter-fire is called upon them. In Civ3, have found RA quite useless cos can move into position and fire in the same turn. Have made the change in my own mod, Homeworld.

[player1]

Sevaral hours before this MOD had rating of 5.0
Now it has rating of 3.0

Talking about CONSTRUCTIVE criticism.

If you don't like something.
Say that.

So we can discuss about that.

And maybe put some change.

---player1

[player1]

New idea for fixing SS problem.
This one should be fair for AI too.

Life Support System should need Recycling.
Why? Just look civilopedia entry. In talkes about recycling too much.

Docking Bay should needs Robotic. Part which needs to be transformed to Space Station (before landing to Alpha Centauri) needs ROBOTIC ARMS, also that could help when loading things from space station in earth orbit (all this is in civilopedia).

Static Champer should need Genetic.
Why? To discover cyrogenic, human race needs advanced biology understanding, including genetic.

Whis way only pure military techs are not needed for SS like Stealth, Integrated Defense or Smart Weapons.

Also lowering SS cost to original values (160, 320, 640) would help AI to start building SS more often.



Next,
Idea for Longevity and Cure for Cancer tweaks.
It's not only Longevity the probelm.
Cure for Cancer 1 happy face is useless in modern times when civs have 6+ luxuries.

So upping Cure for Cancer to 3 HAPPY FACES would make it PREMIUM wonder, which it is supposed to be.
Longevity should be upgarded with 2 happy faces around the world.

That way Genetic would be imortant tech in modern world, as it is (historicaly).

And don't forget that these two wonders are two MOST EXPENSIVE WONDERS in Civ3. They should be a GOOD wonders.


What do you think?
Comments needed.

[alexman]

Yes, the two wonders you're talking about are definitely not as strong as they need to be. I usually build cure for cancer as it is, but that's only because I like to build ALL the wonders, especially those that give happiness.

I really like your idea of changing some of the SS component required advances to force the player to complete more research before launching. The only argument against that might be that it takes away the ability to win by building the SS if you are behind in technology. Say some civ is kicking your butt and is ready to win by domination or culture, so it doesn't bother starting the SS. You might manage to beat him by launching the SS even if you are behind in every category. Civ3 seems to have been designed to always give you a chance to win even if you are behind (tech devaluations, combat system with no hit points, etc). On the other hand, as it is now, the easy SS makes it the most common type of victory. Your changes make it more difficult to build, so we might get more variety in game endings.

So, in general, my feedback is that I agree with your changes (as usual )

[player1]

OK!

If there are no complains or serious unbalances by idea I proposed,
you can expect next version of MOD tomorow.


About SS:
I always considered that you need good tech & industrial power to somplete the SS. That was in Civ2. So let it be in Civ3.

Anyway if somebody needs *cheap* victory he can try Diplomatic victory.


P.S.
Just note: SS part will have original cost, since more expensive version had discouraged AI from building SS (All for AI! Do I talk like Soren?)

[player1]

VERSION 1.1 IS OUT!!!

Downlaod from first page of the thread.

CHAGES:

Life Support System needs Recycling.
Why? Just look civilopedia entry. In talkes about recycling too much.

Docking Bay needs Robotic. Part which needs to be transformed to Space Station (before landing to Alpha Centauri) needs ROBOTIC ARMS, also that could help when loading things from space station in earth orbit (all this is in civilopedia).

Statis Champer should need Genetic.
Why? To discover cyrogenic, human race needs advanced biology understanding, including genetic.

With these chages only pure military techs are not needed for SS like Stealth, Integrated Defense or Smart Weapons.

This will make end game more interesting. Players will have time to use some more advanced techs before finishing Space Ship.

Also SS cost is lowered to original values (160, 320, 640), since that helps AI to start building SS more often (which wasn't the case in earlier versions when SS components were 2.5 times more expensive).


Longevity and Cure for Cancer tweaks:

Longevity is not enough usefull in modern age (and sometimes it gives more probelms then in helps). Also, Cure for Cancer 1 happy face is useless in modern times when civs have 6+ luxuries.

So upping Cure for Cancer effect to 3 HAPPY FACES will make it PREMIUM wonder, which it is supposed to be.

Longevity will be upgarded with 2 happy faces around the world. In combo with old effect this will make it a very good wonder.

This way Genetic will be imortant tech in modern world, as it is (historicaly).

And don't forget that these two wonders are two MOST EXPENSIVE WONDERS in Civ3. They should be a GOOD wonders.

[narmox]

nice.. I'm still in the middle of the middle-ages, playing as the Russians (and ~20 turns away from Mil. Tradition ), so I haven't seen too many of the changes. I did notice however the French (my neighbours to the north) building a lot more Musketeers, and conveniently declaring war on me and nearly taking 2 cities with them (thank god that I was using this area as a staging point to send 30 units to the zulus.. now those units are busy fighting the French). good work

[alexman]

Espionage hurts your pocket

Has anyone ever used the propaganda option to convert an enemy city? Has anyone actually succeeded?

I used it in (unsuccessfully) my first game a couple of times. But it is so expensive that I have never even bothered since then.

I propose to cut the base cost of propaganda by 2/3, from 100 to 65. I also think planting spies is too expensive, given the high probablility of failure, and the risk involved in making the other civ mad. So I think the base cost of both planting and exposing a spy should be reduced by 2/3 also.

I would also not be opposed to reducing all other espionage options by 10-20%.

Any thoughts?

[player1]

Re: Espionage hurts your pocket

Originally posted by alexman
Has anyone ever used the propaganda option to convert an enemy city? Has anyone actually succeeded?

I used it in (unsuccessfully) my first game a couple of times. But it is so expensive that I have never even bothered since then.

I propose to cut the base cost of propaganda by 2/3, from 100 to 65. I also think planting spies is too expensive, given the high probablility of failure, and the risk involved in making the other civ mad. So I think the base cost of both planting and exposing a spy should be reduced by 2/3 also.

I would also not be opposed to reducing all other espionage options by 10-20%.

Any thoughts?

Dont forget steal tech.



Although I haven't idea which values would be optimal.

[Ultraman]

alexman, have used espionage. Bloody useless. Fail way too often and deplete my treasury for very little gain. player1 and alexman, how do I reduce the cost of espionage in the game? Thanx!

[alexman]

Open the MOD file with the Civ3 editor. Select "Diplomats and Spies" from the drop-down menu on the toolbar. A large dialog comes up. Reduce the number in the "base cost" field for each diplomat/spy mission.

Completely different subject: It's frustrating how short the age of sail is in this game. Especially now with the increased tech trading, steam power is discovered very fast after the middle ages end (scientific civs get it for free sometimes, and trade it to everyone). So I made a change that I am testing right now:

Ironclad (4-4-3) is available with industialization.
(reduced movement and become available later)

Ironclads did not last very long in history at all. In fact, I don't know of any examples where they were used besides during the American civil war. When they were used they were slow, and they were not meant to be used for crossing oceans. Their main purpose was bombardment of coastal cities. Ironclads are too important and too powerful in Civ3, and they spoil the sailing age.

What do you think? Will they become completely useless now?

[foo12]

Originally posted by alexman
Ironclad (4-4-3) is available with industialization.
(reduced movement and become available later)
...
What do you think? Will they become completely useless now?

I've heard that some people (including some released mods) limit ironclads to coastal only. Ironclads of the type visually depicted in Civ3 were prone to swamp if in open ocean. Limiting them to coastal tiles would force the bulk of your navy to be sailed vessels, especially if you're doing an intercontinental invasion.

[player1]

Problem with Ironclad is:
That is you limit it at coastland, it would also limit AI.
He'll stop building sails (at least he won't disband them), and build ironclads.
And bye, bye AI intercontinental invasions.


P.S.
Ironclads were usefull ships in history.
It's only problem that there is a blur line between them and early Battleships (dreadnoughts)

Although Monitor class ships were moslty used in rivers.
But thre are other Ironclads (non monitors).
All those steam-powered ships in late 19ths and ealy 20ths.

[player1]

GREAT NEWS

I'll annouce that this MOD is FIRST mod that is posted at official Civ3 site.

Link:
www.civ3.com/mods.cfm

P.S.
It's version 1.03 for now, new version 1.1 is downloadable here at this thread.