MOD: Patch suggestion MOD

[player1]

Originally posted by Ultraman
Thanx for responding, and info on rate of fire. I'm still not clear. Would it have the same impact to have a unit with a bombard str of 6, and an ROF of 1 (6x1=6), vs a unit with a bombard str of 2, and an ROF of 3 (2x3=6)?

Not exactly.

For example:
Defender has defense of 4
Attaker has bombard rating of 8, and ROF of 2.
Chace for hit is 8+(8+4)=0.67 regardless of number of ROF.
But you can do two HITS. If you are lucky you'll take out two 2hp.
On the other hand unit with 16 bomb. rating has chage of 80% to do hit, but it will never do two hits.

Impact could be similar depending of what you atttack.
Is it unit with high defense or not?

If its defense is low, ROF is a more importatnt.
If its defense is high, bomb. rating is a more importatnt.

But, both are important in most cases.

Second example:
One bombardment with Bomber is exactly the same as bombardment with 3 Cannons (Bomber 8/3, Cannon 8/1).

As for corruption and pollution, my scenario has hopefully halved both. You can set the flags in the editor. Reduced pollution of some improvements, and others like solar plant reduces; current setup is that it does nothing.

The fact is that I want to reduce polution form poplutiation.
I am OK with factory and power plant giving 4 point of pollutiom.

But, I am not ok with having 20 size city, with pollution of 8 (20-12) due to popultaion size.

Yes, Mass Trasist practicly eliminates that kind of pollution, but usually after I build Mass Transit I never have any kind of polluiton problems.
Until then, pollution in nightmare.

I hope Firaxsis will give at least flag for that in next editor.

[Ultraman]

Very illuminating indeed on ROF, thanx a bunch! Will be working on version 1.5 of my scenario, and will credit some of the thinking to you, if that's OK.

On pollution, you can set flags in the editor to knock off population pollution.

Thanx again!

[player1]

Originally posted by Ultraman
Very illuminating indeed on ROF, thanx a bunch! Will be working on version 1.5 of my scenario, and will credit some of the thinking to you, if that's OK.

Thanks!

On pollution, you can set flags in the editor to knock off population pollution.

Do you mean Remove pop. polltion (default given to Mass Transit)?

If that, it only helps one time. You get building, and pop. pollution is no more.

I would rather have somting like reduced effect, reagrdless of buildings built.

[player1]

I was playing this MOD yesterday.

When I wanted to upgrade my legions I got one big suprise.

1120 gold for 14 Legions to Riflemen!

I guess that Leonardo Workshop is much more importatnt now.

Anyway MOD works fine for me.

[alexman]

It works fine for me too - I love it! It's the only way I play now.

The only thing I've changed is the tech rate. I can't stand the fast pace of the standard game. I also changed the draft unhapiness as you suggested above, but I hardly ever draft so I have no opinion on its effects.

Hopefully in the next patch Firaxis will adopt your changes (although I seriously doubt it). I really hope they fix things that you can't fix with the editor though (Corruption model, especially for Communism, tech whoring, AI drafting, etc)

Most of your changes involve units. Have you given any thought on government changes for the MOD? (i.e. weaken Republic, strengthen Communism). The reduced draft unhapiness helps Communism, and I'm not sure if Republics need a commerce penalty like Monarchy (maybe reduced corruption to compensate) Hmmm... I'll try those changes in my next game.

[godinex]

HU! very expensive for only 14 units...

[alexman]

Originally posted by godinex
HU! very expensive for only 14 units...

I don't think it's excessive. Look at the difference in unit strengths. And you don't HAVE to upgrade if you don't want to. But with this change you won't get the option to build swordsmen in the modern era. That's the most important effect!!

[player1]

Originally posted by alexman
Most of your changes involve units. Have you given any thought on government changes for the MOD? (i.e. weaken Republic, strengthen Communism). The reduced draft unhapiness helps Communism, and I'm not sure if Republics need a commerce penalty like Monarchy (maybe reduced corruption to compensate) Hmmm... I'll try those changes in my next game.

I am not sure what should be best solution.

Personnaly I would love to have a bigger differentiation between corruption in various governments.
And that something which isn't easily done in withiout patching.

I always thought that Commnism needs 150% (Workers unite!) effetcs for wokers, but I'm not sure will it make something unbalanced.

Trade bouns should stay for Republic (it doesn't have free unit upkeep).

Democracy is OK for Religious players, but it's a little risky for others.

Don't forget that I don't want to have: "use always Democry, it's best" solution.


Since I am not sure what needs to be tweaked witout making something brokern, I wan't chage anything about govements, but I'll support people to make their owen chages and post comment about it.

Then, I'll reconsider.

[player1]

One advice for those who whant to tweak the rules:

Don't start MOD as Scenario, try to owerrite civ3mod.bic with MOD file.
That way you can make chges on the fly.
In the middle of the game.

Good for playtesting.

[player1]

Democracy vs Republic is more like:

-don't want to risk: Republic
-risky builder: Democracy

[alexman]

Originally posted by player1
Democracy vs Republic is more like:

-don't want to risk: Republic
-risky builder: Democracy

Except that Democracy comes later in the tech tree, so it should be better overall than Republic. Anyway, I guess I agree with you that the governments aren't too imbalanced. (well, except for the way the AI uses Communism)

Another thing that I think is broken and can be fixed in the editor is espionage. It's way too expensive and not worth it as it is.

[player1]

I won Space Race!

Unforunately, 2.5 times more expensive SS parts haven't acomplished what I was hoping.

It was again: "discover Laser and launch SS next turn".

Only difference is that I was building SS parts non-stop without pausing.
SS Engine (1600 Shileds) is finished in same time as "Laser part" (normally it is finished much sooner).

Also, AI was very passive in building SS parts.
They started to build 10 turns before I finished it, and haven't finished any of them (two AIs strted 1 part, and one AI strted 3 parts).


Here is the save before launch (Monarch, 8 civs, standard map).

[simwiz2]

"Radar Artillery should now have correct movemnt of 2"

The only problem i see with this is radar artillery blitzing, or coming along your RR's with alot of rad artillery, using one movepoint to get in range of an AI city (usually they have a border of 2), and blowing the city to pieces, then taking it. With move of 1, u get in range and then the opponent can counterattack. 2 MP would make it a bit overpowering, and it could make MP a bit like the howie-blitzes of civ2.

I tried giving rad arty 2 move in my mod, and it made killing the AI too easy. In MP, it would make the endgame go to whoever can pump out more rad arty and MA's.

[player1]

Originally posted by simwiz2
"Radar Artillery should now have correct movemnt of 2"

The only problem i see with this is radar artillery blitzing, or coming along your RR's with alot of rad artillery, using one movepoint to get in range of an AI city (usually they have a border of 2), and blowing the city to pieces, then taking it. With move of 1, u get in range and then the opponent can counterattack. 2 MP would make it a bit overpowering, and it could make MP a bit like the howie-blitzes of civ2.

I tried giving rad arty 2 move in my mod, and it made killing the AI too easy. In MP, it would make the endgame go to whoever can pump out more rad arty and MA's.

Not realy.
With movment of 1 I am forced to use bombers, never Radar Artillery.
It's just silly to move these slow units if you have bombers.

Bomber are usually more effective then Radar Artillery.

Just look their picture. They are mobile.

This just makes then EVEN. Not better them Bombers.

And, I can assure you, it's not like Civ2 Howitzer.

You get them as end-tech anyway.
They are supposed to be powerfull.
And they are not overpowering.

[player1]

And you can capture Radar Artillery.

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!




P.S.
I've done some calculations.
Their bomber effectiveness is almost the SAME.

On the other side, you can protect yourself from bombers by Fighters.

But, you can also attack Artillery with your own mobile forces.