LEADERHEAD: Canadian: Trudeau

[Out-of-the-blue]

Canada should have some sort of Shock Trooper, or Elite Infantry...I mean we were known as the Allied Waffen SS. We would take German POWs and force them to sit on our recon vehicles so we could go deep into german territory without being shot at...

[Changmai Beagle]

Thanks Cairo East

Thanks for taking the time to learn. Unfortunately I have to display my ignorance on the Compromises - and I thought I knew a bit of American history.

Just in case you didn't come across this (and might be tempted to do a similar paper someday) Alberta became home to a number of black cowboys. We have a town called Amber Valley that was settled (IIRC) by former slaves. And in Dinosaur Provincial Park the cabin of John Ware - our most famous black cowboy - is preserved as a historic site. I believe Mr. Ware was one of the early cowboys involved in the cattle drives that were the genesis of the Calgary Stampede.

[Timw1996]

Ariel Sharon

I would really like to have an Ariel Sharon leaderhead or some other Isreal leader.

[Willem]

Re: Ariel Sharon

Originally posted by Timw1996
I would really like to have an Ariel Sharon leaderhead or some other Isreal leader.

I don't mean to be rude, but what does that have to do with a Canadian mod? Or is that an extension of the Jewish conspiracy theory?

[Cairo_East]

Originally posted by Changmai Beagle
And in Dinosaur Provincial Park the cabin of John Ware - our most famous black cowboy - is preserved as a historic site.

Yes, I did some sudies of John Ware and many like him that came up from Oklahoma in the period just prior to statehood in 1907. 1/3 of American cowboys during this period were black-you'd never know it from movies and TV though.

Back to the subject of leaderheads though, after last weekends tirade we finally have footage of an angry Wayne Gretzky, so I guess he can now be used in CivIII.

[Lumpx]

I think that one possiblity for the peacekeeper would to have it like the privateer, able to attack units without reprocutions. Perhaps only against countries currently ingaged in a war. Make it standard infantry.

[Captain]

Cairo_East, your knowledge is great!

A lot of Canadians like to think our southern neighbours are all ignorant boors - thanks for proving them wrong. sometimes I have to remind my friends that anti-americanism is not a virtue. It's also a shame that while many Canadians consider Americans ignorant, many Canadians have scant knowledge of America.

The whole issue of Canadian-American relations is pretty interesting but too often it boils down to silly arguments, like the supposed claim that Canada is more compassionate than the US because of its social welfare system (which in actual fact is more similar to the US version than we like to admit). A lot of Cdns also hate US "flag-waving", but in recent years, we're as guilty of that sort of unbridled nationalism as the US is.

Still, that's not to say I think Martin Sheen would make a better president than your current one (for that matter, he'd be better than Chretien too). And, despite my words so far, it's still not to stop me from saying We whupped the USA in hockey!

There's a great book on this whole "inferiority complex" thing by Will Ferguson called "Why I Hate Canadians". Check it out sometime. It's an interesting look at how many Canadians look at their national identity as an anti-thesis, especially being dwarfed culturally, economically, and politically...

as for the civ,
maybe Laurier as leader, I think he was the most rationale leader that still actually accomplished something...
upgraded destroyer for UU...
commercial & industrial...

btw, CBC has got a short docu-drama?mini-series? about the life of Trudeau coming on soon. we'll see how much propaganda that one's carrying.

[Cairo_East]

Originally posted by Captain

There's a great book on this whole "inferiority complex" thing by Will Ferguson called "Why I Hate Canadians". Check it out sometime. It's an interesting look at how many Canadians look at their national identity as an anti-thesis, especially being dwarfed culturally, economically, and politically...

as for the civ,
maybe Laurier as leader, I think he was the most rationale leader that still actually accomplished something...
upgraded destroyer for UU...
commercial & industrial...

btw, CBC has got a short docu-drama?mini-series? about the life of Trudeau coming on soon. we'll see how much propaganda that one's carrying.

Thanks for the complements, I didn't expect them when I made my posts. I checked for the book in our massive library system here in my university. It didn't come up, but I did find it for sale at chapters.ca . On the web site for the book, it had this:

Our customers who bought this item also bought-
* Bastards & Boneheads: Our Glorious... (1999) Book ~ Will Ferguson
* Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire (2000) Book ~ J.K. Rowling
* Quo Vadis (2000) Book ~ Henryk Sienkiewicz
* Kathy Smith: Kickboxing Workout (1999) VHS

...interesting.

I've also suggested Lester Pearson as a possible leader. Although he didn't do much domestically, he is probably the best known Canadian politician in the world today with his Nobel Prize winning resolution of the Suez Crisis.

As for the Pierre Trudeau story, I was in Toronto the week following his death (I've only been to Canada twice, the other time in BC & Lake Louise). Therre was quite an outpouring of Canadian nationalism at the time. I found the suspension of civil liverties in Montreal to be quite surprising. Not that it's above the USA to do such a thing (Pres. Wilson in WWI, Lincoln in Civil War).

[Captain]

Originally posted by Cairo_East

On the web site for the book, it had this:

Our customers who bought this item also bought-
* Bastards & Boneheads: Our Glorious... (1999) Book ~ Will Ferguson
* Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire (2000) Book ~ J.K. Rowling
* Quo Vadis (2000) Book ~ Henryk Sienkiewicz
* Kathy Smith: Kickboxing Workout (1999) VHS

...interesting.

As for the Pierre Trudeau story, I was in Toronto the week following his death (I've only been to Canada twice, the other time in BC & Lake Louise). Therre was quite an outpouring of Canadian nationalism at the time. I found the suspension of civil liverties in Montreal to be quite surprising. Not that it's above the USA to do such a thing (Pres. Wilson in WWI, Lincoln in Civil War).

Yes, sorry i gave the wrong impression with the book, it's a light-hearted perspective (you could almost say satire) but its basic premise is many Canadians derive their self of identity from the opposite of whatever America is, and it's chock full of self-deprecating "inside" jokes. More a fun read than accurate analysis.

Anecdotal, but when you read it and you think "gee, that really describes my friend X", it's funny how bang on it is. It's got stuff like five pages of children's verbatim descriptions of what Canada is (basically, Canada has beautiful wilderness, Canadians are nice people, Canada is not the USA - which is pretty amusing when one considers how national identity often boils down to this dreck)

Personally I've never really understood why Trudeau is considered such a hero by many. Sure he supported stuff like the Constitution and Human Rights legislation, and he was a dynamic personality (compared to a lot of the middle of the road stuffed shirts these days) - but when push came to shove, his leadership didn't match his noble ideals.

Too much cynicism, I know. The more I read about history or politics, the worse it gets...

[Willem]

Originally posted by Captain

Personally I've never really understood why Trudeau is considered such a hero by many. Sure he supported stuff like the Constitution and Human Rights legislation, and he was a dynamic personality (compared to a lot of the middle of the road stuffed shirts these days) - but when push came to shove, his leadership didn't match his noble ideals.

I suspect it was much the same sort of the thing as the influence of The Beatles at the time, being in the right place at the right time. Trudeau was a modern leader at a time when our culture and society was going through a lot of changes. In many ways, he exemplified those changes, became a symbol for them. Compared to him, the rest of the political establishment was dour and old-fashioned. He seemed to embody the new ideas that were going around then, and wasn't afraid of them, like some of his peers were at the time. People felt that he reflected the changes that they themselves were having to deal with, that he understood them, better than any politician around at that time, even in the States.

And he wasn't afraid of standing up to the US, of putting our interests ahead of theirs. That was something Canada hadn't seen in a leader for quite awhile. The Avro Arrow being a good example of this.

[Cairo_East]

Originally posted by Captain


Yes, sorry i gave the wrong impression with the book, it's a light-hearted perspective (you could almost say satire) but its basic premise is many Canadians derive their self of identity from the opposite of whatever America is, and it's chock full of self-deprecating "inside" jokes. More a fun read than accurate analysis.

It's not that, I'm just surprised that there are lots of people who buy this book along with a Harry Potter novel and a kickboxing video.

As a native Oklahoman (who goes to school in Pennsylvania and now lives in Kansas City), I felt a certain bond with Canada. I think that Oklahoma is really the Canada of Texas. Think about it: we're not as arrogant, we not a bunch of millionaires , we have great political and geographic differences between our east and west sections of our state, we're hockey nuts, and we spend most of our time defining ourselves as "Not Texan".

[KrazyHorse]

Aussies suffer from Commonwealth rivalry

They're annoyed that Britain pays more attention to us because we're the bigger, older brother.

Canada obvously doesn't "deserve" a place in the top 16 civs of all time, but it certainly comes in above the Foster's swillers down south.

[KrazyHorse]

Seriously, though

Has anybody else noticed that every mention of a Canada mod brings out some beaver-bashers?

I noticed that nobody's mentioned how insignificant Costa Rica is in their thread...

[Willem]

They're probably just jealous that the UN keeps declaring ours the best country in the world to live in I guess. The last report was the first time in years that we didn't come out on top.

[JohnnyCanuck]

First of all this guy is making this mod so that we Canadians (and anyone else who is so inclined) can play as Canada for fun (IN A GAME). If you don't want to, but out!

So now on to the real discussion...

The Infantry shock troop is a good idea, in WWI Canadians quickly earned a reputation as being amoung the best of all troops to serve in the great war.

When Canadians arrived in Britain there were images in the paper of a "Canadian dagger ready to be thrust into the heart of Germany." However this image rapidly faded. By this time the valient fire that was displayed in WWI had deteriorated. We faught valiently to distinguish ourselves as a great, and SEPERATE nation in WWI. For some reason or another this was not as prevalent in WWII, but we still became a small yet elite army after training for a few years in Britain.

Beyond a doubt our main contributions, which were far more usefull than most non-Canadian history books will give credit for, were our roles in providing Britain with raw resources and protecting the convoys on route.

This Brings up one possibility for a UU: It should not be a destroyer, but a Corvette! A very small but incredibly sturdy and versatile boat. It was ideal for harrasing submarines. In reality a typical type VII Uboat could outgun a corvette on the surface, but they never tried for fear of the corvettes speed and maneuverbility. These boats were mass produced and much more valuable in convoy protection than the destroyers that appeared later and in fewer numbers. The key to convoy protection, remember, is to have adequate numbers not powerfull ships.

But is that really the best military unit we have used in a war? Was it the infantry? The Corvette? No, there is something even better: The Lancaster Night Bomber! This was the BEST bomber of WWII, designed in Britain it was mass produced in Canada and flown by RCAF pilots. Some people say the Lancaster was more of a precision bomber, which is true, but it also could carry the largest payload of any WWII bomber! It was one hell of a plane, that is for sure.

Yet still, i think beyond anything the UU of a civ should reflect something about the civilization. For that reason the Mountie is the only logical choice. For one it is the most recognizable Canadian unit around the world. That much is evident from some of our foreign friends posting in this thread. Secondly, the concept of a defencive calvalry reflects our national identity much better. Canada is the antithesis of an aggressive nation. For that reason beyond anything, the Mountie should be the Canadian UU.

I think Commercial is a good choice for Canada as well because of the reduced corruption. We never had a "wild west" like the Americans did because of the RCMP. Today the RCMP is still unique in the world as it is the only national, federal, provincial and municipal policing body serving the majority of our country.