MOD: korn's Blitz Mod

[TechWins]

Before I post any comments I should note something first: I have yet to unzip.open/play beta7.4 but I have downloaded.

*Moved Libraries from Literature to Writing

Even though I think this idea has an upside it has also has a downside; Literature becomes a very invaluable tech with the move of the library. In fact unless you have the motive to build the great library I would see no reason for a civ to research Literature, but I'm not sure if the AI will see it like that.

*Changed the Outrigger to the Galley 0.1.2 20|2 sink in seas, sink in ocean
*Changed the Galley to the War Galley 2.2.3 30 sink in seas, sink in ocean, Naval Power

Having that potent of a boat right off the bat will create for too much early expansion, IMO. Boat travel on large distances did not take place around 4000bc nor did it take place in 3000bc or 2000bc. I think you should add an extra boat for early naval units. However, I may be wrong because I'm not positive on what the requirements for each boat are.

*Outrigger (no req) 0.1.1 20|1 sink in seas, sink in ocean, Naval transport
*Galley (map making) 0.2.3 30|2 sink in seas, sink in ocean, Naval transport
*Wargalley (map making) 2.2.3 30 sink in seas, sink in ocean, Naval Power

Not only will this be more effective system for early naval units, IMO, it will also provide more variety for the units.

You should give a link or a reference to the wargalley graphics in your mod. That way people will be able to have unique graphics for more units. Possibly even include this as part of the files in a "heavy" download.

*Added see Invisable units to Partisans and Marines

Good idea. And don't include anymore units with the see invisable units abiltity because as you said it will lessen the power of invisibality. Have you thought about adding an ancient day or a middle ages invisable unit?

*Changed Forbidden Palace to 150 shields 1 culture

I was going to suggest this exact change. There is a big problem with using the forbidden palace (I'm sure you know the whole situation ) and this can only help, at least I hope so.

Well, it's pretty late right now, so I'll post the rest of my comments tomorrow.

[Ganja]

Korn - not sure if it'll help but i have attached the auto save game file. The crash occurs after a few more turns. Hopefully you can try it out and see if it crashes for you.

[Desert Dog]

Nice name..

Originally posted by Ganja
Korn, I have tried downloading the mod from the front page and from this page but the version.txt file says Beta 7.3. Is it right or wrong?

Hey I really like your name (alias)! Great Medication material Oh, sorry!

DG

[Desert Dog]

Originally posted by korn469


all Naval transport units including modern transports and aircraft carriers have 0 attack, the reason for this is that troops ships have never actually pursued pirates, warships have, they might have cannons but they employ defensive tactics and are not used as offensive ships, and this is what i'm trying to represent

i found a link

http://www.piratesinfo.com/browser.php?outside_link_id=22

btw are you desert fox from civfanatics?

I see where your trying to go with this. Your saying that the defense ability acts as the small cannons that they actually had. hmmm, Well I agree with Ganja pretty much. The Galley (outrigger) is just something that should not be around that early. I thought that playing a few times, stone age times never invented a floating device at all.
The War Galley is just to powerful that early. I actually think Firaxis had it right in at least this aspect with offense anyways. Once you reach the frigate however they really seem confused for offense. Of course you fixed that!
The Carrier's of today need escorts. Galleon's in the past were at times loaded with offensive weapons. I think you should reconsider this one part of your mod. My privateer strategy will not work with the 2/2 War Galley they destroy them very easily
Why not make the Caravel the first realy war ship instead, make the first 2 ages much more balanced considering the actual history.
Excellent link by the way I actually bookmarked it. I want to do a Pirate scenario once we get the updated editor.

Desert Dog

AKA Desert Fox on civfanatics

[Desert Dog]

Corporate Raider

Hey Korn,
Just an update on my blitz tweak for 230x230 worlds and greater. I added in the Corporate Raider (using Frigate graphics)with no wierd icon problems so far. I am a few turns away from modern era to see if it shows up right there. I made the Privateer upgrade to the Corporate Raider. The Raider has 7/3/6 w/2 bombard ability at fire rate 3. This was a dumb idea because you can cause way to much havoc for dumb AI. Multiplayer on the other hand might become very interesting using something like this. No way for AI I know you already thought of this.
BTW The Partisan have hidden nationality even with a 3/3 still can cause to much havoc like you said.
The changes I made for Hugh worlds dealing corruption seems just right. Corruption still occurs but is manageable.
I still don't understand why some cities will end up with 75-120 turns to build some improvements. They look like well placed cities, some not that far from capital either. I think this is something that needs to be fixed. Peace

DG

[Desert Dog]

changes ??

Originally posted by korn469
_______________________
Beta7.4
_______________________

Tech Changes

*Moved Map Trading from Map Making to Navigation
*Moved Communication trading from Writing to Magnetism
*Moved Mutual Protection Pacts from Nationalism to Radio
*Moved Libraries from Literature to Writing
_______________________


Unit Changes


*Changed the Outrigger to the Galley 0.1.2 20|2 sink in seas, sink in ocean
*Changed the Galley to the War Galley 2.2.3 30 sink in seas, sink in ocean, Naval Power
*Changed the Legion to 3.2.2 40 from 3.2.1 30 all terrain as roads
_______________________

General Changes

*Changed Barbarian Naval Unit to War Galley
*Changed worker value in shields from 20 to 25
*Changed starting distances on all map sizes to the following values
Tiny 9
Small 12
Standard 18
Large 24
Huge 32 (editor max)
_______________________

Difficulty Level Changes

*Changed the Cost Factor in Chieftan to 30 from 20
*Changed Emperor so it has the same stats as Diety in 1.17f
*Changed Diety so it is harder than Diety in 1.17f
_______________________

Wonder Changes

*Changed Shakespere's Theater to 2 happy, +50% luxuries, 16 culture
*Changed Newton's University to 500 shields
*Changed Universal Sufferage to 900 shields
*Changed Hoover Dam to 1200 shields
*Changed Longevity to 1200 shields
*Changed SETI to 1200 shields
*Changed U.N. to 1200 shields 14 culture
*Changed Forbidden Palace to 150 shields 1 culture
_______________________

Dude I did not read all your changes until now. I am not sure where your going with the above changes. I think you are making the mod only interesting to certain players or something. I personally do not agree with the tech changes. Moving them around will make the tech tree unbalanced I beleive. No offense but all of these changes make no sense compared to the other great changes of the past. Keep on making the mods though Thought I would throw in my 2 cents

DG

[kettyo]

Originally posted by korn469
but i have though about making mech infantry undraftable, and having normal infantry not upgrade but i'm not sure about this yet
plus if the enemy has airpower and modern armies full of modern armor they can easily blast you out

Or make a "modern infantry" unit with lower cost, low movement, and just slightly lower defense ability (20 or something), much lower attack than the mech inf. This unit would be draftable (mech inf isn't) and obviously "infantry" would upgrade to "modern infantry". I think you agree that it's also strange constructing tons of bradley-like fighting infantry vehicles (drafting mech inf) suddenly when someone declares war.

All of you have a nice day.

[solo]

Tech Wins,

Moving libraries to Writing was so that the AI could build the Great Library. Before, korn's 2 library pre-req was causing them to conclude they could not build the GL, my theory being that if they can not start a wonder on the turn of a tech discovery, that they are not programmed to try this later when 2 libraries have been built. Now they are able and do attempt to build the GL.

korn,

After trying your latest, there was a slight improvement to the problem of rapid AI tech acquistion, but I felt more has to be done in this regard, so I tried two changes, using the editor, and so far have been very pleased with the results.

I am playing deity games on standard size maps with 8 civs, but in the editor I increased the standard map size to 180x180 (old huge setting) and increased the minimum starting distances between civs to the maximum of 32 (also the old huge setting).

The AI still grow and expand very rapidly, but contact between civs has diminished enough to slow the pace of tech acquisition down to a more reasonable level. Also, what used to be some very fine features of CivII have also been restored by doing this:

1) Less congestion and contact in the early part of the game.

2) The FUN of early mapping and exploration.

Try it, and I bet you'll like it!

[micokeman]

Need a sea route

I've got a problem... I hope somebody can help...

I just built a city on a DYE. It's about 40 squares a away from the nearest city. The ocean is between the two, but there is a route that my galleys can travel. The city is on a shore facing NW. The closest city is 40 tiles SW from it.

I expected to get the dyes added to my list of luxuries when I built a harbor, but it says that it's still unattached and that I need a sea route. How come this city is not attached to the rest of my cities?

Coould the distance or the location have any thing to do with it not joining the rest of my cities?

Any ideas, please let me know.

Michael

[lockstep]

Re: Need a sea route

Originally posted by micokeman
I expected to get the dyes added to my list of luxuries when I built a harbor, but it says that it's still unattached and that I need a sea route. How come this city is not attached to the rest of my cities?

Maybe you discovered neither Magnestism nor Navigation? (In the standard version of Civ3, you need at least one of them for ocean trade, and I can't recall korn messing with this feature.)

[korn469]

Ganja

thanks for the save game, i downloaded it and will test it in a few minutes, if worse comes to worse i will rebuild beta7.4 from an older beta i have on my computer

techwins

Even though I think this idea has an upside it has also has a downside; Literature becomes a very invaluable tech with the move of the library. In fact unless you have the motive to build the great library I would see no reason for a civ to research Literature, but I'm not sure if the AI will see it like that

i'm just testing it to see if like solo said it helps to improve the AI, if not i'll move libraries back to literature

if it does help the AI then i'll see what i can do to make literature a more attractive tech

Having that potent of a boat right off the bat will create for too much early expansion, IMO. Boat travel on large distances did not take place around 4000bc nor did it take place in 3000bc or 2000bc. I think you should add an extra boat for early naval units. However, I may be wrong because I'm not positive on what the requirements for each boat are.

*Outrigger (no req) 0.1.1 20|1 sink in seas, sink in ocean, Naval transport
*Galley (map making) 0.2.3 30|2 sink in seas, sink in ocean, Naval transport
*Wargalley (map making) 2.2.3 30 sink in seas, sink in ocean, Naval Power

here is my thinking on the subject

there are three types of maps, archipelligo, contients, and pangea, and naval units are only really useful on the first two

now on archipelligo maps it is fairly easy to colonize other islands, because usually only coastal waters seperates them, but on contients there is usually 2-3 ocean squares and 2-4 sea squares

my goal is limit invasions and colonization of other contients to astronomy, but because of 4 move naval transports with the great lighthouse this becomes impossible, so having naval transports that move faster than 2 is problematic, however having a naval transport that moves one makes them seem useless IMO, it is 430bc in my last playtest game, and i am almost finished exploring the general outline of my contient, though even with the great lighthouse i don't think i would be able to make it to other contients, in one earlier game before i started modding i was able to cross over to another contient by getting lucky without having the great lighthouse

also having two ships is slightly simpler, though i would eventually like to add more resources, and maybe have some ships (like the wargalley) require timber as a strategic resource

You should give a link or a reference to the wargalley graphics in your mod. That way people will be able to have unique graphics for more units. Possibly even include this as part of the files in a "heavy" download.

this is in the works

Good idea. And don't include anymore units with the see invisable units abiltity because as you said it will lessen the power of invisibality. Have you thought about adding an ancient day or a middle ages invisable unit?

i'm not sure about earlier invisable units, except for possibly making the scout invisable...but if you can think of a good niche for an earlier invisable unit i'd like to hear

I was going to suggest this exact change There is a big problem with using the forbidden palace (I'm sure you know the whole situation) and this can only help

yeap, the forbidden palace is one of the only wonders you build in corruption ridden low production cities, i might even make it 100 shields if it is still too hard to build, but making the FP easier to build should help fight corruption

The Galley (outrigger) is just something that should not be around that early. I thought that playing a few times, stone age times never invented a floating device at all.

Desert D/F

well since most capitals don't start on the coast, and it does take 20 shields to build, about the earliest you will produce a no prereq galley is probably around 3250bc, and while that is fairly early, as unrealistic as civ is it isn't too far out of line

My privateer strategy will not work with the 2/2 War Galley they destroy them very easily
Why not make the Caravel the first realy war ship instead

privateers move double the rate of war galleys, and then have slightly better odds of surviving because of the defensive terrain bonus, but i might consider making them have a 3 defense...i just want to make it so that frigates rule the sailing ships

and i have added a warship that comes with astronomy to the list of units, i'll probably call it a sloop, unless somebody else has a better name

I am not sure where your going with the above changes. I think you are making the mod only interesting to certain players or something. I personally do not agree with the tech changes. Moving them around will make the tech tree unbalanced I beleive.

i stand behind all of my tech changes, and i want to see how they work out before i make any further changes, but in case you were wondering

*Moved Map Trading from Map Making to Navigation
*Moved Communication trading from Writing to Magnetism

those changes are made to try and combat AI tech whoring

*Moved Mutual Protection Pacts from Nationalism to Radio

i have heard many people complain that the AI self destructs in the industrial era, and my hypothesis is that MPPs create a situation in the normal game where the AIs are almost constantly at war and they switch to communism and then over whip and over draft until they almost disappear, i has used MPPs to start general wars that i remain out of, also i think this is the number one reason why all of the AI seem to choose fascism

so if i am right the industrial era won't see the AI self destruct every game, and if i'm wrong i'll change this back

but either way it needs testing

Or make a "modern infantry" unit with lower cost, low movement, and just slightly lower defense ability (20 or something), much lower attack than the mech inf. This unit would be draftable (mech inf isn't) and obviously "infantry" would upgrade to "modern infantry". I think you agree that it's also strange constructing tons of bradley-like fighting infantry vehicles (drafting mech inf) suddenly when someone declares war.

kettyo

good idea, i'll add it to the list

The AI still grow and expand very rapidly, but contact between civs has diminished enough to slow the pace of tech acquisition down to a more reasonable level. Also, what used to be some very fine features of CivII have also been restored by doing this:

1) Less congestion and contact in the early part of the game.

2) The FUN of early mapping and exploration.

Try it, and I bet you'll like it!

i would except i only have a p2 400 with 128mb ram...the last time i played on a huge map right around 500bc the turns started taking 5 minutes or more to process

so i only play on standard size maps or smaller...what about the rest of you? which size map do you play on?

my brother recently got a computer with win XP a p4 2.2ghz cpu and 512mb rambus ram...so i want to try civ out on that and see how it runs

just built a city on a DYE. It's about 40 squares a away from the nearest city. The ocean is between the two, but there is a route that my galleys can travel. The city is on a shore facing NW. The closest city is 40 tiles SW from it.

I expected to get the dyes added to my list of luxuries when I built a harbor, but it says that it's still unattached and that I need a sea route. How come this city is not attached to the rest of my cities?

micokeman

do you have a harbor at the other side of your empire for it to connect to? if you don't then you need to build one

but if you have the great lighthouse and are using it to cross seas, then you don't actually have a sea route, because in civ3 (iirc) you need astronomy to have a sea route across seas, and magnetism or navigation either one to cross oceans

EDIT:

the correct version of the blitz mod should be on apolyton now, when you try to load a file with the same file name it apparently doesn't replace it

also i'm searching for crash bugs and hopefully i'll find it

[lockstep]

Some comments/suggestions regarding the naming of the three 'culture-only'-buildings (currently forum/theater/museum):

• I don't asscociate the term 'forum' (building no. 1) with culture, art etc. It may be a good term for a Republic government-specific building (when such a thing finally works in Civ3).
• While it is somewhat intuitive that 'theaters' (building no. 2) are available with Free Artistry (the same tech that brings 'Shakespeare's Theater'), real theaters have been present since the ancient age, at least in Greece.
• I don't have a problem with 'museums' (building no. 3), except that they come with Atomic Theory (which doesn't deal that much with culture). When we start tinkering with the tech tree (and this has a very low priority IMO), we should attach 'museums' to a new tech (let's say, 'Histiography', available with Nationalism).
• To get rid of 'forums', I suggest to call the culture-only-building no. 1 'theater' and make it available with Literature (not from the beginning).
• Building no. 2 should still become available in the middle ages, its name should be strongly associated with culture (and its tech shouldn't be the one that brings Shakespeare's) ... so I suggest 'opera', available with Music Theory. (IIRC, the first operas date from the 17th century, so this is at least somewhat historically accurate.)
• Last but not least: Make 'theaters' a prereq for 'operas', and 'operas' a prereq for 'museums'. This is not historically accurate, but it makes for a less cluttered build menu. (Just like cavalry upgrading to tanks. )

[Tridotan1]

Thankyou for your reply. I understand about the problems in incorporating my ideas. No worries though, I've got some more.

The WW2 early flight kinda period is too short. You get the ability to get fighters and then you have jet fighters within ten turns. This removes a significant period of history from the game and early tanks and super modern jets end up both being the forefront of technology at the same time.
Also I think that the invention of computers should increase military efficiency in some way, like adding extra movement or combat stats to naval, air and ground units because, afterall, computers help modern military cope far better.
It is also quite annoying that eary infantry (supposedly from the eary 20th century) are still the best in non-machine defence units all the way until the end. By saying this I am raising two points:
1) Perhaps a better "human" unit such as modern infantry should replace old infantry at the appropiate point in the game. By the end of the game, the only units battling it out with each other are Modern Armour and Mech. Infantry.
2) Maybe this is pushing it a bit, but if at all possible there should be more abilities that can only be carried out by "human units" such as military policing or attacking the final unit in a city's defence (troops always march into cities first in real life) as well as travelling in helicopters.

If you can't use my ideas don't worry

[Desert Dog]

upgrades?

Hey Korn if you need to upgrade that old PC of yours let me know. My son and I have a business upgrading/repairing custom building PC's. Give you upgrade at cost. Just a thought!
My system is a 1 gig AMD with 256M of ram. Playing on Hugh maps still take between 20-60 seconds to process. Playing with over 8 civs will makes turns take 1-2 minutes each, playing with 16 civs forget about it. I don't know how anyone can play with more than 8 civs on any map. This is one BIG flaw in civ 3.

DG

[korn469]

I don't asscociate the term 'forum' (building no. 1) with culture, art etc. It may be a good term for a Republic government-specific building (when such a thing finally works in Civ3).

While it is somewhat intuitive that 'theaters' (building no. 2) are available with Free Artistry (the same tech that brings 'Shakespeare's Theater'), real theaters have been present since the ancient age, at least in Greece.

so how does this sound, instead of calling them theaters, call them amphitheater which has strong greek and roman overtones

then like you said make it come with literature which would make it a worthwhile tech once more
and making it required for the opera (which is another good idea) which would keep the same stats as the old theater...also operas seems to be more present in other cultures than what theaters are, and it overlaps less in function

the only critism i can think of is that ampitheaters, operas, and musuems are too isolated to western culture, but that is a general problem of civ3 that somebody else can fix!

1) Perhaps a better "human" unit such as modern infantry should replace old infantry at the appropiate point in the game. By the end of the game, the only units battling it out with each other are Modern Armour and Mech. Infantry.

modern infantry is one of the new units that would fill a good niche, so i am going to add it and see what happens

hehe, though one of us needs to come up with some better names for these units

modern armies --> task force? or just army?
modern armor --> main battle tank?
modern infantry --> light infantry?

Maybe this is pushing it a bit, but if at all possible there should be more abilities that can only be carried out by "human units" such as military policing or attacking the final unit in a city's defence (troops always march into cities first in real life) as well as travelling in helicopters.

it is impossible with the editor right now, though i would love to have the SMAC infantry gets +25% when attacking cities rule in civ3, especially if all special abilities like that carried over to armies

Hey Korn if you need to upgrade that old PC of yours let me know. My son and I have a business upgrading/repairing custom building PC's. Give you upgrade at cost. Just a thought!

well i am getting ready to buy a new car, so a new computer is off till later in the year or early next year, plus the only upcoming game that i want to play that my system most likely won't be able to handle is WarCraft 3...hehe but my brother already has it preordered, so i can play it there, and by the time blizzard releases it i might have a new computer anyways

_____________________________

ok so here is the list of possible units to add to the blitz mod

*sloop, a warship that comes with astronomy that is weaker than a frigates and sinks in oceans
*special forces, a guerrilla unit (either invisable or hidden nationality) that cost alot of shields but no pop and is amphibious plus can airdrop and is primarily made to fight partisans
*commerce raider, a moder version of the privateer, historically something like one of the german pocket battleships
*modern infantry, a unit that falls between infantry and mech infantry and is draftable
*supersonic bomber, a moder version of the bomber that doesn't have stealth
*modern worker(engineer), the name says it all
___________________________________

these are more debatable ideas

*spy plane/AWACS, currently impossible to do properly with the editor, but a super recon plane
*assault carrier/amphibious task force, currently impossible to do properly with the editor, but something like the USS Tarawa, that carries helicopets, harriers, and lots of marines
*SAM, currently impossible to do properly with the editor, but a ground based unit that could move with modern forces to give them some airprotection
*attack helicoper, unsure about this one, but if i did implement it it would go with the assault carrier

please if you have any ideas for other units please suggest them