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  • What Happened to Espionage?

    I installed 1.17.

    Then, after getting the right editor, I tried to change the ridiculously high costs for Espionage functions such as sabotage or stealing plans.

    Unfortunately, with 1.17 we can no longer change those absurdly high costs for Espionage in the "Diplomats and Spies" section.

    Espionage was minimally effective and very problematic. With the high costs it was not worth the effort, even if one could lower the cost for the advance and Small Wonder.

    Bad move, Firaxis.

    1.18 must allow us to change the costs for Espionage!

    As for me, I'm either going back to 1.16, or in 1.17 raising the costs for the Espionage advance and Small Wonder to such a high level no sane civ would want it. The only reason I might keep 1.17 is stack movement.


    • Encomium

      what are you talking about? are you sure you have the right version of the 1.17f patch?

      they included a new editor in that patch, and maybe it didn't have full functionality, when you goto help then about civ3edit it should say that your bic version is 2.10, does it?

      because if it does then open a civ3mod.bic file, select the diplomats and Spies tab, then there is a box called base cost, where you can change the cost of diplomacy actions

      hope that helps


      • Question on defecting cities.

        After the first stage of the initial land grab, the AI annoyingly starts founding cities on every little peninsula and spit of land, with the result that enemy cities sprout within two or three squares of my border cities. As the game progresses, these little bastard cities inevitably defect to my civilization. When that happens the game gives you to choices: either "good, install new governor" or "rebuff the rebels." Installing a new governor and accepting this new city expands your borders, but results in two cities (the defecting city and your own adjacent border city) with stunted growth potential. I assume that rebuffing the rebels causes the defecting city to remain part of its original enemy civilization (actually I've never tried this option so I could be wrong). This is not an attractive option because the enemy city remains a security threat and potential launchpad for an attack. Besides, for strictly esthetic reasons I don't like having an alien pimple on the butt of my glorious civilization. What I'd really like to do is just raze the defecting city to get it out of the way and give my border cities room to grow.

        Does anyone know if there's a way to do this without having to declare war and raze the defecting city that way? Alternatively, if I accept the city into my civilization, is there a way of starving it to death by, for example, turning all the citizens into entertainers, so that the city just zaps out of the space-time continuum, leaving you room to grow?

        Thanks for your input


        • You can starve the city and have it build workers to drop its size eventually to zero. Unfortunately as soon as starvation causes pop loss you'll have to go back in and reset them all to entertainers again as they automatically redistribute. Its slow and annoying but it works. To build a worker with the last pop point and disband the city food production must be in balance. If the city is growing it won't give you the option to disband it.
          To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity of reflection.


          • dengidavai ;

            you can let them make settlers or workers , who could join a city of you , and depending on how fast you want to get rid of them , you can starve them at the same time aswell , héhéh

            have a nice day
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            WHY DOES ISRAEL NEED A SECURITY FENCE --- join in an exceptional demo game > join here forum is now open ! - the new civ Conquest screenshots > go see them UPDATED 07.11.2003 ISRAEL > crisis or challenge ?


            • Real Easy Analogy

              There have been some question as to why a Swordman can destroy a Tank Unit? Chance, they say, but that's not really an explanation as to 'How' this is occuring by 'Chance'.

              This happenened to me once: A Tank was a fresh unit, but only 3 points. A couple Knights wore it down and then a Swordman destroyed the last 2 points!

              What happened? Well the knights disabled the Tank! This means the tanks aren't moving and are sitting ducks. At this point, everyone must have ran outside and were sliced up by the Swordsman.

              This also applies with any other 'superior' unit. Whatever it is that makes it superior - gunpowder, mobility, firepower - can and will be disabled momentarily at some time in the future! This makes your precious Modern Armor not as resilient -- it ran out of gas per chance. Think of this as one plausible explanation.
              Castle Wolfenstein or Civilization 3? So little time...


              • Hey,
                One way I've kept ahead of other CIVs in science is by Maximizing my science, and trading ALL THE TIME! Sometimes I give them a free territory map, even free money making techs to keep them happy. I stay just ahead of them and then trade my science for gold per turn, if there are several CIVs you can keep your science at 100% and never bother with money, except every turn, check to see if you go to 90% or 80% if it will keep your advance in x turns the same,.
                Even if your money is negative at the beginning, it you check this every turn (sometimes it stays the same at 50%) you can store up cash and then deplete it when you start a new advance. Hope this helps.
                Too much month at the end of your money? Open to sources of income other than your job? Check out


                • Q: I just saw a civ with an irrigated square with no water next to it, and before electricity! How is this possible?
                  A: Two ways. The AI might have irrigated a line of squares up to that one, then mined over the intervening squares. The second way is to note that a city square is considered irrigated if there is water or an irrigated square next to it. If the square just east of a city has fresh water, then you can irrigate the square just west of the city.
                  C.A You can't use the city as an irrigation conduit if it's built on a hill. Guess you need pumps!

                  Q. I thought I read a thread somewhere that stated you could save and reload city building queues, but I haven't figured out how to do this. Am I daft, or just confused?


                  • Originally posted by Egyptian
                    Two complaints

                    I usually don't complain much, and I think civ3 is a great game. My two major complaints about civ3 with the 1.17 patch are as follows:

                    1. All the other civs have the same tech advances no matter what. They all trade so much, that instead of eight civilizations all playing to win the game, it is me against the rest of the world. I wish the AI didn't trade techs so much, it would make the game a lot more interesting and fun!

                    2. The foreign advisors screen only works correctly about half the time (after 1.17 patch). Often, thousands of years after each civ has met all the other civs, and traded with each other extensively, only four or five civs show up on the foreign advisors screen. And then, some of the lines showing peace, war etc. don't show up. It makes it really difficult to figure out the relationships among civs, especially mutual protection. Also, firaxis needs to have a foreign advisors screen where sixteen civs can be displayed at once.
                    Answer to 1.)
                    Well I think alot of this is due to the fact that as more civs get a certain tech, the cost of it lowers, and thus you can get it faster and it gets cheaper in trade deals, thus civs with little money can trade for it. Anther thing if you cant beat them, join them, trade with the AI all the time as much as you can before they do it and you get nothing out of it. They are considering lowering the effects of this in future patch.

                    Answer 2.)
                    Your foreign adivisor sceen is not messed up. To see who is war with who you must have embassies with all the civs. Anther thing if you left click and press shift on the blank spaces you can get the missing civs put into those spots.
                    Donate to the American Red Cross.
                    Computer Science or Engineering Student? Compete in the Microsoft Imagine Cup today!.


                    • I've been playing this game since Civ first appeared and have been a huge fan though all of its versions (1 & 2 and Alpha Centauri) and I think III is the most ambitious of all. I don't understand magazine reviewers saying "it's more of the same but it's nice" (they have deadlines, I guess), since there HUGE changes in Civ. Isuppose the changes are too subtle. They'd prefer to see a Civ III single person shooter... that'd be "innovative"

                      But I'm digressing. My point is that because the game has so many changes, it has MANY problems

                      1) I want my foreign advisor to tell me if I'm about to break a treaty. It's too easy to loose track and as a result everyone hates you in in the end game.

                      2) I want more options to play the game the way I want to play it. My biggest annoyance by far is having a huge continent with only one valuabe resourse (iron, saltpeter, etc.) and then having that resourse expire. I quit games over stuff like that. It's stupid design. You like it? Fine. Just give me the option to opt out. I also want the scarcity of resources to be an option I can pick when I start the game.

                      3) I want a warning before a city flips to another culture. A pop up about "civil unrest" isn't too much to ask for. Losing a large army out of the blue like that sucks ass and is bad design again.

                      4) Why is the government type of other nations only visible from the Military advisor? Not the Foreign advisor? Why aren't we told about changes in governents? These things can't be secret... Why doesn't the dialogue change to reflect changes in government any more? Why can't I see ALL of my opponents on a large world Foreign advisor screen?

                      Now I'm not dumping on the game even though it sounds like it. I like the game but I have serious reservations about it. I feels like it was rushed to get it out for chrismas.

                      If Firaxis can patch it up I'll love it more than any Civ version. Otherwise I might move back to SMAC. SMAC, whatever its faults, let the gamer customize a great deal.

                      Give gamers options and controls. Keep your customers happy. That's all I'm saying...


                      • Q: is it possible to make the manhattan project a small wonder instead of a wonder? (am i the only one that thinks giving EVERYONE the bomb, after the first person gets it, as being crazy?)
                        A: ??

                        Q: I tried to make submarines 'hidden nationality'. Although I never see the enemy subs until they attack, I've seen stacks of enemy and/or friendly ships (usually frigates and ironclads) go straight after my subs. Has anyone else tried this?
                        A: ??


                        • Q is there a faq out there with all the current keystrokes in a handy to use format, up to the current patch?

                          Q A list of all the wonders, improvements etc all on one easy to use page?

                          Q how about all the military stats?

                          Yes I own the game, Civ I just about single handedly caused my first marriage to end in divorce. (THANKS SID!) I just dont want to create this sort of document if one already exists


                          • Originally posted by Saint Marcus

                            Go to the editor, open the bic, and then go to the edit world size screen (or whatever it's called). select one of the sizes you wish to edit, and change the number of civs to 16. Great fun, 16 civs on a tiny map
                            i did this for standard map, set it on 12 civs and the game simply won't start that is, after installing 1.17


                            • Re: RoP & airlift orders

                              Q: If I have a Right of Passage with a foreign civ in the late-game (ie post-flight) era, would it not make sense that I could airlift my units to or from his cities with airports? ....

                              A: That would involve having your airlifted unit in another's city. Due to the game mechanics, that would imply (1) you have units in the same tile as the other's units (you have attacked the units), and (2) you have CAPTURED the city if it was unoccupied.
                              Last edited by MarkG; June 3, 2002, 04:56.


                              • Q: Can I alter the number of possible units in the game using the editor? It has a 'rename' function, but no 'add'... any way I can get around this?

                                Q: How come a paratrooper cannot paradrop from a city without an airport, but a B-2 bomber that needs a mile and a half of tarmac can operate out of the same city?
                                Last edited by MarkG; June 3, 2002, 05:00.