MAP: Improved Huge Map of Earth

[kittenOFchaos]

Russia could do with being alot more inhospitable -can we make more terrain?

As for Japan once she gets contact with china -and gets writing, I think- she can buy communications with loads of people P.S in the game I played in on the map Japan eventually expanded very aggressively and it was only hindered by China having started in N.China and by the massive expansion of Persia.

The problem with the strategic resources is that: e.g for Japan

during the period of samuri it probably wasn't too hard to locally get enough iron ore to produce your swords etc...however in the modern era she couldn't hope to build her huge navy considering her limited iron ore deposits (economically that is...which is a major factor). It whether to get around that samuri don't require iron, but japan needs to secure iron for her later expansion into a naval power.

[Kaptnwakky]

I leave for a few days and the map jumps from 5.2 to 5.7 - pretty impressive. However I noticed that whoever upgraded post 5.2 must have either not liked the geographic changes to the west coast USA or not used them. I took the liberty of incorporating these changes into 5.7 so that the Rockies are well defined and the great basin exists. Also the resources were from an older map so I changed a few of them to represent more accurate production centers and dropped quatities to the following - I also included what civs are most likely to get those resources. If anyone decides to make more changes please do it with the updated geography - its a real pain to incorporate multiple maps. Also I attached map 5.8 which has all the changes in it.

Horses -
2 - north america (Iroquois/Americans Disputed)
1 - spain (French)
1 - France (French)
1 - Germany (Germans)
1 - Subsaharan africa (Zulu)
2 - Anatolia (Babylonians/Persians)
2 - Eastern Europe (Germans/Greeks)
2 - European Russia (Russians)
2 - Persia (Persians)
2 - Asian Russia (Russians/Persians)
3 - Mongolia (Chinese)
1 - China (Chinese)
Total = 20

Iron -
1 - Pacific Northwest (Iroquois)
2 - Andes (Aztecs/Unclaimed)
1 - Appalachians (Americans)
1 - Morroco/Algeria (Egyptians)
1 - Pyrenees (French)
1 - UK (English)
1 - West France (French/Germans disputed)
1 - North Italy (Romans)
3 - Scandinavia (Germans/Unclaimed)
1 - North West Congo (Zulus)
1 - Anatolia (Babylon/Greek disputed)
1 - India (Indians)
2 - China (Chinese)
1 - Urals (Russians)
1 - Black Sea Region (Russians)
1 - North Korea (Chinese)
1 - Hokkaido (Japanese)
1 - Persia (Persians)
Total = 22

Saltpeter -
1 - Utah (Americans/Iroquois Disputed)
1 - Baja California (Aztecs)
2 - Andes (Aztecs/Unclaimed)
2 - Poland (Germany)
1 - Alps (Germans/Romans Disputed)
2 - West Sahara (Unclaimed)
1 - North Africa (Egyptians)
1 - Egypt (Egyptians)
1 - Red Sea (Egyptians)
1 - Anatolia (Greeks/Babylonians Disputed)
2 - Gobi Desert (Chinese)
1 - West China (Chinese)
1 - West Australia (Unclaimed)
1 - Spain (French)
Total - 18

Coal -
2 - UK (English)
1 - West Germany (Germans)
1 - Rhineland (French)
1 - Poland (Germans)
2 - Urals (Russians)
2 - Appalachians (Americans)
2 - India (Indians)
2 - China (Chinese)
2 - Australia (Unclaimed)
1 - New Zealand (Unclaimed)
1 - European Russia (Russians)
Total - 17

Oil -
1 - Alaska (Unclaimed)
1 - Texas (America/Aztec Disputed)
1 - Central/Southern Canada (Iroquois)
1 - Mexico (Aztec)
1 - North Africa (Egypt)
1 - Subsaharan West Africa (Zulu)
1 - Indonesia (Unclaimed)
5 - Saudia Arabia/Babylon (Babylonians/Persians Disputed)
3 - Caucuses/North Caspian Sea Region (Russians/Persians Disputed)
1 - Central Russia (Russians)
1 - Western China (Chinese)
Total - 17

Rubber -
4 - Amazon Region (North America Disputed)
2 - Congo (Zulu)
1 - Subsaharan West Africa (Zulu)
6 - Malaysia/South Pacific (Unclaimed)
1 - Australia (Unclaimed)
3 - Indochina (China/India Disputed)
Total - 17

Aluminum -
1 - France (French)
1 - Italy (Romans)
2 - Greece (Greeks)
1 - Hungary (Germans)
1 - Caucuses (Russians/Babylonians Disputed)
1 - Urals (Russians)
1 - Subsaharan West Africa (Unclaimed)
1 - Subsaharan Central Africa (Zulu)
1 - India (Indians)
2 - Indochina (Indians/Chinese Disputed)
2 - Australia (Unclaimed)
2 - South America (Aztecs/Americans Disputed)
1 - Southern US (Americans)
Total - 17

Uranium -
1 - Balkans
2 - Siberia
1 - France
1 - Congo Region
1 - Madagascar
1 - Sahara
1 - India
1 - Western China
1 - Southern China
2 - Australia
2 - South America
1 - Eastern Canada
2 - Southwest US
Total - 17

Wines -
2 - California
4 - France
2 - Italy
2 - Greece
2 - Australia
1 - Portugal
2 - Crimea/Ukraine
2 - South America
Total - 17

Furs -
3 - Western Russia
4 - Eastern Russia
3 - Eastern Siberia
3 - Eastern Canada
4 - Western Canada
Total - 18

Dyes -
3 - Southern Iran
3 - Central America
2 - Babylon
3 - Indochina
2 - Congo
3 - West Amazon
total - 16

Incense -
5 - Middle East
3 - South West China
2 - India
3 - Japan
2 - Arabian Peninsula
2 - South Egypt/Sudan
total - 17

Spices -
4 - Philippines
4 - Indonesia
3 - Indochina
2 - India
3 - New Guinea
Total - 16

Ivory
3 - South Africa
2 - South Congo
6 - Subsaharan central Africa
4 - Subsaharan West Africa
2 - India
Total - 17

Silks
5 - China
3 - Indochina
2 - Taiwan
4 - South America
2 - Kyushu
Total - 16

Gems
4 - South Africa
1 - India
3 - Western China/Kazakhstan
2 - Australia
2 - Southamerica
4 - Congo Region
Total - 16

[narmox]

hm, map at version 5.8 already!?!?!?!?!? whoa.

well, anyways...

For those who'd like for all civs to start in their correct position (and I haven't checked if this has been provided before), here's a c3b file for use with civ3breed 0.46 and satya's worldmap v. 5.3:

http://www.multimania.com/narmox/civ3/map53.c3b

[warlon]

Originally posted by Kaptnwakky
I leave for a few days and the map jumps from 5.2 to 5.7 - pretty impressive. However I noticed that whoever upgraded post 5.2 must have either not liked the geographic changes to the west coast USA or not used them. I took the liberty of incorporating these changes into 5.7 so that the Rockies are well defined and the great basin exists. Also the resources were from an older map so I changed a few of them to represent more accurate production centers and dropped quatities to the following - I also included what civs are most likely to get those resources. If anyone decides to make more changes please do it with the updated geography - its a real pain to incorporate multiple maps. Also I attached map 5.8 which has all the changes in it.

Horses -
2 - north america (Iroquois/Americans Disputed)
1 - spain (French)
1 - France (French)
1 - Germany (Germans)
1 - Subsaharan africa (Zulu)
2 - Anatolia (Babylonians/Persians)
2 - Eastern Europe (Germans/Greeks)
2 - European Russia (Russians)
2 - Persia (Persians)
2 - Asian Russia (Russians/Persians)
3 - Mongolia (Chinese)
1 - China (Chinese)
Total = 20

Sounds good

Iron -
1 - Pacific Northwest (Iroquois)
2 - Andes (Aztecs/Unclaimed)
1 - Appalachians (Americans)
1 - Morroco/Algeria (Egyptians)
1 - Pyrenees (French)
1 - UK (English)
1 - West France (French/Germans disputed)
1 - North Italy (Romans)
3 - Scandinavia (Germans/Unclaimed)
1 - North West Congo (Zulus)
1 - Anatolia (Babylon/Greek disputed)
1 - India (Indians)
2 - China (Chinese)
1 - Urals (Russians)
1 - Black Sea Region (Russians)
1 - North Korea (Chinese)
1 - Hokkaido (Japanese)
1 - Persia (Persians)
Total = 22

Japan's iron should be south not north, to help their starting captital.
There should be Iron in the rhineland, and not in Western France.
Too many iron in Scandinavia. Would be better to add some more into USA.

Saltpeter -
1 - Utah (Americans/Iroquois Disputed)
1 - Baja California (Aztecs)
2 - Andes (Aztecs/Unclaimed)
2 - Poland (Germany)
1 - Alps (Germans/Romans Disputed)
2 - West Sahara (Unclaimed)
1 - North Africa (Egyptians)
1 - Egypt (Egyptians)
1 - Red Sea (Egyptians)
1 - Anatolia (Greeks/Babylonians Disputed)
2 - Gobi Desert (Chinese)
1 - West China (Chinese)
1 - West Australia (Unclaimed)
1 - Spain (French)
Total - 18



Coal -
2 - UK (English)
1 - West Germany (Germans)
1 - Rhineland (French)
1 - Poland (Germans)
2 - Urals (Russians)
2 - Appalachians (Americans)
2 - India (Indians)
2 - China (Chinese)
2 - Australia (Unclaimed)
1 - New Zealand (Unclaimed)
1 - European Russia (Russians)
Total - 17

Oil -
1 - Alaska (Unclaimed)
1 - Texas (America/Aztec Disputed)
1 - Central/Southern Canada (Iroquois)
1 - Mexico (Aztec)
1 - North Africa (Egypt)
1 - Subsaharan West Africa (Zulu)
1 - Indonesia (Unclaimed)
5 - Saudia Arabia/Babylon (Babylonians/Persians Disputed)
3 - Caucuses/North Caspian Sea Region (Russians/Persians Disputed)
1 - Central Russia (Russians)
1 - Western China (Chinese)
Total - 17

Rubber -
4 - Amazon Region (North America Disputed)
2 - Congo (Zulu)
1 - Subsaharan West Africa (Zulu)
6 - Malaysia/South Pacific (Unclaimed)
1 - Australia (Unclaimed)
3 - Indochina (China/India Disputed)
Total - 17

Aluminum -
1 - France (French)
1 - Italy (Romans)
2 - Greece (Greeks)
1 - Hungary (Germans)
1 - Caucuses (Russians/Babylonians Disputed)
1 - Urals (Russians)
1 - Subsaharan West Africa (Unclaimed)
1 - Subsaharan Central Africa (Zulu)
1 - India (Indians)
2 - Indochina (Indians/Chinese Disputed)
2 - Australia (Unclaimed)
2 - South America (Aztecs/Americans Disputed)
1 - Southern US (Americans)
Total - 17

Uranium -
1 - Balkans
2 - Siberia
1 - France
1 - Congo Region
1 - Madagascar
1 - Sahara
1 - India
1 - Western China
1 - Southern China
2 - Australia
2 - South America
1 - Eastern Canada
2 - Southwest US
Total - 17

There is NO uranium in southern China. Japan should have 1 uranium to represent their great leap from 1950's into modern economy and give them some bonus from their initial bad starting position.

Wines -
2 - California
4 - France
2 - Italy
2 - Greece
2 - Australia
1 - Portugal
2 - Crimea/Ukraine
2 - South America
Total - 17

Furs -
3 - Western Russia
4 - Eastern Russia
3 - Eastern Siberia
3 - Eastern Canada
4 - Western Canada
Total - 18

Dyes -
3 - Southern Iran
3 - Central America
2 - Babylon
3 - Indochina
2 - Congo
3 - West Amazon
total - 16

Incense -
5 - Middle East
3 - South West China
2 - India
3 - Japan
2 - Arabian Peninsula
2 - South Egypt/Sudan
total - 17

Spices -
4 - Philippines
4 - Indonesia
3 - Indochina
2 - India
3 - New Guinea
Total - 16

Ivory
3 - South Africa
2 - South Congo
6 - Subsaharan central Africa
4 - Subsaharan West Africa
2 - India
Total - 17

Silks
5 - China
3 - Indochina
2 - Taiwan
4 - South America
2 - Kyushu
Total - 16

Gems
4 - South Africa
1 - India
3 - Western China/Kazakhstan
2 - Australia
2 - Southamerica
4 - Congo Region
Total - 16

What happened to the 5.5, 5.6 and 5.7 changes to geography?
Why are lotsa cattle and other bonus resources removed from Japan, UK, China, Russia and central Europe? Instead adding to USA and there? Rivers removed in Southeastern Asia.

Generally I feel that the setbacks outweigh the improvements.
I didn't have the time to comment on all of the resources though.

I will make a 5.9 or later version if someone makes a version before me be done. Incorparating some of your changes kaptwannsky and some other new improvements in Australia making it bigger.

[DaemonGate]

Originally posted by satyajedi
I'm finding in my games that there are way too many resources on this map, so much so that it limits trading and discourages competition. Are other people finding this as well?

Very very much so.

[N35t0r]

I haven't taken a look at the map,since i'm at school, but i'm willing to do so as soon as i can donload it. I live in Argentina, so i can provide some feedback on SA (some of it at least).


I can tell you to include at least Uranium and Coal on the Andes, in the center-east of Argentina (the coal more to the south).

And not including horses in America wouldn't be a good idea, once they got here, they bred very well... Here, in Argentina, they are used almost everywhere...

[N35t0r]

oh, and the silks on SA are a big no...

It should be interesting to monopolize luxuries between 2/3 civs, to encourage trading...

Also, there are important amounts of Oil in Argentina, perhaps we deserve a tile of it?

[warlon]

For all the other maps out there I think this map is the best and most realistically done map of the world. The landshapes are really good done and the resources are good considering what alot of other maps have to offer.

[Alexandre Madeira]

Ok, I agree with warlon and HsFB.

Some luxury monopolization would be a good idea (some, not all). Silks for instance should only be in the east (China mostly).

Also think the setbacks outweigh the improvements, where did the latest changes go?

Please, when you start work on a map update, if you think it will take more than 5 minutes, post saying you're working on an update. And when you upload, let everyone know what version you're updating from.

[Kaptnwakky]

My apologies since I updated from 5.2 - I found that 5.7 had been updated on a map before 5.2 and so what I thought were important changes to geography in 5.2 such as the western U.S were lost. I thus went thru 5.7 and took as much as I could find and changed 5.2 to look like 5.7. I guess I must have missed a bunch of stuff.

--Luxury monopolization is a good thing in theory - however what happens I've found is that when civ has more than 3+ of either a luxury resource or strategic resource they simply hoard it and refuse to share. This wasn't a problem with most resources as they spread evenly - three in particular did not spread well historically and so I had to "make them up" - these were spices, silks and wines - I think I fixed wine and put silks in South America to give the america some kind of luxury other than fur. It also gives reason to colonize Southern South America.

--I am against increasing Australia's Size - not that I don't like australia but that it is smaller in size than Europe - Autralia is only 7.6 million square kilometers while Europe is 10 million. If australia is increased in size, I think it will be disproportionate.

--Was/is there Uranium in Japan today? If not, I don't believe they should get any. Also Iron was placed in Hokkaido because there is today a large amount of Iron up there that is mined - or there was in 1980 which is when my atlas is from.

--With regards to general placement of Resources - I found that when too many are placed near each other - you get "super cities" who get a whole bunch of trade/production from them. I tried to space them out in the process.

Thats all - sorry for my long posts

[Globber]

Excellent, excellent map. gonna start new game. I was just looking through it and if India gets put in the right place, it's gonna be completely F*cked by like 5 barb camps at the beginning of the game. I play with raging barbs, so India would be completely wiped out, being religious and commercial, I think. cut down a bit on the barbs there and it will be fine.. Also, add a bit more oil in Texas. one doesn't cut it. Don't mess with Texas. Otherwise, great job

[Xentropy]

Sorry if this was already inquired about, since in 8 pages of stuff, most of which is invalid in the latest version of the map, I really didn't bother reading everything, but....

Why are there horses in the Americas? They should be removed for historical accuracy. Iroquois and Americans can fight with archers until those mysterious Europeans appear with their great four legs.

[satyajedi]

I understand not wanting to read through all of that! :-) There has been a pretty long-running debate about areas of the world that produce a resource, but only because it has been brought in by other people. Horses in America is one example; wine in California or Austrailia is another. Honestly, I feel somewhat ambiguous about whether to use either of them. On one hand, obviously, they wouldn't be producers of those goods if it were not for European intervention; on the other hand, it would not be accurate to have Spain, France and Italy have a monopoly on wine, when the reality is they face a great deal of competition for that resource from Austrailia, Chile and California. Anyway. I think in the end it comes down to gameplay.

I'm working on a redesign at the moment, focusing on the distribution of resources. I'm trying for four goals:

1. to limit the number of resources as much as possible;
2. to equalize starting locations as much as possible;
3. to encourage monopolies (although not exclusively) to encourage trade;
4. to position resources in competitive areas, to encourage resource driven combat, including in the "uncivilized" areas of Austrailia and South America.

Obviously, real distribution of resources is very important to me, but it is not going to be the controlling factor in this redesign.

-Satya

PS - Excellent that we have a South American on the board!

[gilesgd]

New user with a fresh outlook. If or when Firaxis fixes the starting locations for the civilizations it really doesn't make a difference to me if the resources are geologically accurate. If the placement of resources improves the gameplay, I'm for it. I just don't want to get wrapped up haggling over where someone placed an oil or didn't place wheat.

Greg

[Kaptnwakky]

How few resources were you planning on reducing them to Satya? I am against reducing them to below 16 - Also take into consideration that with the new patch, you can only have 512 total cities on the map and with the rate at which the AI expands its a race to build cities, so some of the smaller civs like the Europeans are bound to get bumped out by large civs such as the americans or russians.

Also, with all the programs to change start locations, is it really necessary to have fixed start locations?