The Official Apolyton Bug List

[Seraphim]

Oh, and here's the other bug. When I use my veteran bomber to do a bombing mission on the Persian city of Sardis, you get the animation of the bombs dropping, but you don't of the bomber flying by. I've uploaded the savegame so others can confirm (I tried taking a screenshot, but it didn't work). Incidentally, this happened in the same game as the above mentioned bug.

[Seraphim]

And to complete the hattrick, here's a shot of a graphical bug with building the paratrooper in the city view screen.

[playshogi]

I upgrade my units by opening the city screen and right clicking on the unit in the 'garrison' section. This brings up a menu to activate, disband or upgrade if available.

[vincentz]

Originally posted by Seraphim
Wow, another bug to report. Am I on a roll or what?

But first, I finally confirmed my initial report about the submarine bug. When I used the goto command on my battleship I happened to run into a hidden submarine belonging to the French, who I was at peace with at the time. Immediately my battleship opened fire, without giving the usual warning, and sank the sub. When I then opened the domestic advisor I was now at war with the French.

Here's a picture of the path by battleship took, with the big red X marking where the sub is. I'll include the save file in the following post so you can see for yourself.

What intrests me in your pic, is that the French has an ISLAND OF BORDER just outside of you city. Correct me if I am correct, but shouldnt the borders be connected to cities, even with fog of war? Or am I playing on a low level here?

[Seraphim]

Originally posted by vincentz


What intrests me in your pic, is that the French has an ISLAND OF BORDER just outside of you city. Correct me if I am correct, but shouldnt the borders be connected to cities, even with fog of war? Or am I playing on a low level here?

Here's a wider shot. I've seen this twice so far, in both cases it was an AI border that does this. Apparently the game won't allow a border on a ocean tile, but if the city's culture is high enough and the ocean just a thin band, the border will slop over and create these weird border islands. Its definitely counted as part of the AI's domain, since they demand I leave whenever I enter one.

[korn469]

infinite range bombers

ok i seem to have found two bugs myself

first one, precision bombing doesn't work at all (unless i am too stupid to figure it out)

i activate a stealth bomber hit p and it says "select city", then when i move the curser over a city it is a red crossed out circle and selecting a city seems to cancle the order, the same thing happens when you hit the actual precision bomb order

the second bug is the infinite range bomber attack

select anywhere on the screen that is visable to you and hold down on the "b" key and you can bomb any square on the map
can anyone confirm this?

my system stats are

p2 400
128mb ram
10gb hard drive
2x dvd player
32mb radeon pci card

[esarsfield]

Diplomacy

1. It be nice if you could negotiate peace between two other civs. For example, if you are allied with one civ - you should be able to try to negotiate peace between the two.

2. In my opinion pollution is out of control, even with hydro power. Granted it is somewhat manageable, but where is the fun of constantly cleaning up pollution? The way you have to micromanage it is irritating - Even with auto-clean on.

Two reasons it is frustrating, even with auto-clean:

a. Your workers will not auto-skip if there is no pollution that turn. Meaning, you have to re-set them at auto each and every time.

b. When a tile becomes polluted, your citisens immediately become tax/science/entertainer - since that tile is worth 1 red square. This is very irritating, because once it is auto-cleaned up -- your citisen still remains a special citisen. This means you have to constantly go through each and every city, looking for citisens who were auto-moved to special and not moved back once the pollution has been cleaned.

If they don't want to fix this problem, then there should be a preference to turn natural city production pollution off. I'm sure there are those who disagree, but reason number 2 really annoys me.

3. Nuclear weapons need to be strengthened. I noticed you can't increase their power in the editor, at minimum this should be allowed (at least I think so). I enjoyed how the planetbusters were implemented in SMAC. I'm not saying the nuclear weapon has to obliterate the land into water, but it have a decent chance to totally destroy cities and units with one go.

4. Army's need to be improved. I've had an army of 4 tanks, all at veteran. When I attacked a city of 4, defended by 2 spearmen - I WAS SHAMEFULLY DEFEATED. This wasn't a rare upset. I brought in a nearby army of cavalry, same thing. Finally I was able to take the city with a lone tank. I know some are saying they don't encounter this very often, but I have been encountering it quite frequently.

I have lost battleships to caravels. Not just on one instance, but several. I have lost many tanks and cavalry to spearmen, pikemen, and musketmen. I had a three enemy knights kill eight fortified infantry. Combat seems entirely too random, where results like this are possible.

Probably the worst encounter I've had was a single REGULAR archer was able to destroy 3 non-fortified tanks.

5. There should be some sort of penalty for razing cities. Partisans should appear or something. Sacking towns should have diplomatic effects too (if they already do, I havn't noticed them).

6. The way resistance is handled is interesting, but I think it goes away way too fast. I've never had resistance be a problem. Maybe this is because my culture rating is usually high, I'm not sure, but a heavily resisting town should create some sort of partisan unit to give me grief. This way if I havn't stationed strong units there, I could lose the town and it could revert back to the original owner.

7. It be nice if there was an easier way to disband a town, rather than starving it down to 1 and creating a worker. When the AI is being rude and creating cities very close to mine, my culture often brings them in. This is fine and nice, but they are way too close to be useful. I can always rebuff them, but then they are still my opponents - if I take them in, sometimes they end up hurting the nearby cities (because zones change.)

8. Maybe it is me, but I find clandestine operations too expensive to be worthwhile. It be nice if this could be adjusted in the editor.

9. It be nice if you could expel foreign units that you are at peace with. Very often I demand that their units leave, they lie and say they'll take them off - but they just tredge further and further into my domain. Their reason for doing this? Because they want to be rude and build a city in the two squares (right in the center) that my culture hasn't developed. Quite often I end up declaring war on them, just to stop them from building cities so close to me.

[Juu]

more problems

1) I couldn't load a cruise missile on any kind of transport, neither carrier, nor regular transport. This should be possible.

2) Why should nuclear submarines only be able to carry nuclear missiles is beyound me. Many carry conventional Tomahawks these days.

3) The governors misbehave and make the end-game into a micromanagement nightmare.

4) The phalanx-kills-armor situation arises way too often.

5) Fighters don't require rubber? How about having synthetic rubber advance to replace the resource, as in real life?

6) Ability to not see own worker movements, or friendly unit movements at all, to speed up late-game gameplay.

7) Increase the ability of ICBMs (destroy 75% of population and units, take all surviving units to critical, and destroy all improvements), and that of SDI (to 90%, perhaps). Leave the ability of tactical nukes as before, perhaps allowing targeted strikes when using such.

8) Ability to target units instead of improvements when bombing tiles outside a city. I always seem to be destroying improvements first, even when in the neibourhood of my own cities!

9) Corruption (at least under democracy) is ridiculous.

10) Apollo project should reveal the whole map, no FOW.

11) Leader appearance and the need to have a victorious army for military academy seems contrived and unnatural.

12) AI diplomacy has problems when dealing with maps - he likes them even when he's recently bought an identical map. Also, AI often proposes unequal trades - e.g., 2 my luxuries for his 1, my gold and map for his map, etc.

[Altuar]

1- Nuclear Plants cannot be built near lakes or rivers. Ocean works fine.

2- When there is a change (like removing airplanes from the game, ahem!) that affects the 'big picture' tech screen, everything gets jumbled up there. (arrows point to nowhere, techs get all garbled)

[Timeline]

Okay, well let me make the following post with a bit of a warning: I have not read any of the messages in this thread, because I simply don't have enough time right now. I am posting a number of bugs and features that players have wanted to see, and some (most) of these bugs you guys probably already know about. Also, I know this isn't a "wish" thread, but I don't have time to edit my message.

So just look through and take what you want Korn:

"UPDATED LIST 11/06/01
Hello,

This thread is intended to be as helpful as possible to the game developers of Civ 3, and it is my hope that the information here will be useful in making Civ 3 just a little easier to use, and more fun to play.

Here is the list that Apolyton gamers have compiled as of 11/06/01:

Expanded Gameplay Features:

1) Stack Move: Many have felt that the ability to move units in stacks would be VERY helpful, almost necessary for late game play.

Problem: Given that there are usually considerably more units in this game than in previous Civ games, the one by one movement of each unit can rapidly become a mind numbing proposition.

Suggested Solution: Please allow for stack grabbing and moving. No combat advantage is needed or requested, but we need ability to move more than one unit at a time.

2) Ability to see active agreements from foreign advisor screen.

Problem: Currently, there is no way to see all your all active agreements in one place, and it becomes quite tedious to get a list of all the agreements you have at one time by visiting each ruler one at a time. Another fact that culminates this problem is that your active agreements are always changing.

Suggested Solution: Create a link/button on the foreign advisor screen that will bring up a list of *all* current diplomatic agreements and the turns left before they can be canceled. Also, the ability to cancel from this screen would be helpful.

3) Ability to see what resources ALL other empires have. The ability to see ones they are using or trading to others or even receiving from others.

Problem: The only way to know what resources another empire has (but cannot trade) is to search the whole map looking for specs of rubber and oil. And there is no way to know if/what they are trading to other empires, or if/what they are receiving from others.

Suggested Solution: Make it possible to see other empire's active trade agreements. This can be done easily on the Trade screen. Make it so when you click on an empires name in the "can trade with" box, all their resources (local, Imported, exported) pop up under the "trade agreements" box, rather than yours.

If anyone has a hard time understanding what I mean just ask, and I will Explain better and post a pic.

4) Link to the Civilopedia from city build queue.

Problem: You need to exit city screen and then goto Library and find the unit/improvement you are looking for, just to see what is does.

Suggested Solution: A link that will take you right to the specific entry in the Civilopedia for the item you select.

5) Ability to not show friendly movements at all.

Problem: Near the end of the game, there are a ton of AI units running around, and it can take several minutes to proccess a turn.

"As it is right now, I go and make lunch or watch TV while the AI units zip around interact with each other for upwards of 3 minutes." - Knight

Suggested Solution: Allow ability to not show friendly and/or enemy movements if you don't want to see them. Always show AI movements INSIDE your borders ARE even if option is on.

6) Give option for a pop-up when city fall into civil disorder.

NOTICE: PLEASE don't force anyone who doesn't want a pop-up to always have to view one. Allow the option to turn it off, for those who don't need it.

7) Allow player to chose -Resource Density- in the world setup screen. - Highly Desired Option

Problem: Only other way to do this is to go to the editor - Just make it an option on the world setup screen!!


Gameplay/Balance Tweaks and Features

1) An escort mission for bombing runs.

Problem: It will (hopefully) be somewhat possible to protect your airspace once fighters work how they're supposed to. However, it has remained almost impossible to use bombers with any effect against the AI once they have fighters set up, that is, unless fighters can be used to protect bombers. This is something that should be looked into as many gamers have expressed frustration.

2) Allow Bombers and Fighters to have a random chance of scrambling if they are sitting on an aircraft carrier that is attacked.

Problem: Iron clads taking out a carrier-full of fighters and bombers - need I say more? IRL Carriers are currently the most powerful and effective naval combat vessel on the seas today - but that aside - what fun is it to have a weak, slow, unit, that is almost worthless?

3) Privateer too weak for balance against other ships.

Problem: Simply put, players don't seem to be using them because they are too weak.

3) Nukes must be slightly increased in effectiveness.

Problem: It's driving people crazy, and no, they aren't going to get used to it. As mentioned Cruise Missles do more damage than nukes more times than not, and a group of artillery is actually capable of doing more damage than the nuke itself. Also, nukes are increadibly expensive for their use - the result? People won't build them after long.

Suggested Solution: Increase the chance of military units in blast area of being killed. I would recommend 75% chance for each unit, and 20% for Missles. The Pop damage and pollution currently caused by a nuke is just fine, I think most agree, they just need to have a better chance to kill some units.

4) Allow an army to attack more than once in it's turn.

Problem: With separate units you get to attack 3-4 times, but with an army you can only get one attack which sometimes slows down what would otherwise be a succesful conquest of a city. - Peterk

Suggested Solution: An army should attack as many times as there are units in the army. If you have 3, it attacks three times. - Jason Beaudoin


Bug List


Game Breakers:


Human controlled fighters can't shoot down AI planes. (Covered here)


Possible Breaker:


100 million dollar bug, here - Warning: contents may prove disturbing to some viewers

Corruption, see here and here for details.


Minor


Computers do not respect borders. They leave when you ask, but they come right back in.

Fresh Water is sometimes trapped behind a mountain. Playing on an island and it's not a pretty situation.

Air units can Re-Base outside their area of operation.

Shift-I for worker automation doesn't seem to work.

Civilopedia bug, here

The well known bug of the city advisor screen that refreshes on you after you select a list priority.

Other Bug Threads

There have been many. I am trying to bring all the important stuff under one thread, but these others must be looked at:

Good points, a bit of ranting:
Ten Gameplay Fixes

Another patch thread that got burried: The 1.1 patch list "

[Fidel]

diplo AI

okay
diplo
AI does not put a different value for maps. e.g. you give him map and 60 gold for spice. then map and 60 gold for dye, etc. it does not realize that he got the same map in the same bargaining session....

[Master Marcus]

Re: Enough with thre Raiload bug dudes

Originally posted by vincentz
Scheisen!

Use shift-R to build railroad, dudes! How hard can it be? Read the Giddamn posts in this thread!

And as for corruption: Switch to Communism! My empire is far less corrupt (albeit a couple of shields lost in the capital). All these people ranting about Democracy, it is Communism that works!

Relax, bub, it's a small detail - I just wanted to show that the manual should have stated shift-R instead of the R for road. NO need to be aggressive for that, and I don't need anybody to show me how to read posts

As for Communism, it is good for warmongers on small maps training a 200+ units. I've compared Gov types, and Democracy is still the best regime for the hybrid player owning around 100 units. There's a thread about this.

[Friday]

Graphics bug: Screen warped inwards at all four corners, unplayable at 32 bit 1200x1000, playable barely at 16 bit 1024x768.

System specs compaq athlon 1333, geforce 2 64meg win2k with all patches installed. I tried nt sp5 compatability mode and that didn't help. 21 inch monitor.

[ChrisShaffer]

After building the Hoover Dam, older power plants are not replaced. I had to go to each city to sell the Coal Plants to reduce pollution...

[esarsfield]

Diplomacy Problems

1. You should be able to request that embargos laid upon you be ended. I've had one nation I was at war with convince several others to embargo me. That was fine, but I could find no way to bribe or coerce them to lift it.

2. The Diplomacy Advisor screen needs to be re-worked. Right now it is appealing to eye-candy at the cost of usefulness.
Not being able to see all 16 civs at the same time is really a problem. Rather than having the cute little pictures, it should of been in a useful table format.

The table showing alliances, embargos, etc. This way, at a glance, I can see who I have embargos with, who I have pacts with, etc. As it stands, I have to go through quite a bit of hassle to see what is what.

This is especially true for re-negotiating current agreements. It is quite a pain. I know they were trying to appeal to the eye, but that should not be at the cost of usefulness.

3. Trade screen also needs some amount of re-working. Currently it only shows you what resources they have that I don't. That is useful, but not very useful. I want to easily see all the resources they have and ALSO what they are importing in (and from whom). This is much more useful than just knowing that they have furs and I don't - so I could trade them for furs. This way, if I want to cut off their horse, iron, uranium, etc supply - I know where to go. I don't have to hunt all over the map to see if they have x or x resource.

4. Diplomatic advisor, when advising on embargos, shows a blank screen. What I mean is during the diplomatic session, the luxury area may be greyed out. When I hover my mouse over it to see why (if there's no sea route, no road, etc), the diplomatic advisor gives me a blank message. I assume this is because either I or they have an embargo. But he doesn't advise this, instead he gives a blank window.

5. I can't load cruise missiles on anything. At least I havn't figured out how to.

6. When you wipe out a civ, but they have a settler remaining - they are not truely destroyed. That's fine, but some problems occur because of this.

a. They still appear to be sending you trade items they don't have (and they take yours).
b. You still have an embassy with them, even though they have no cities.
c. They wander around making demands as if they are actually in the position to make demands

7. Perhaps an editor adjustment, if possible, to limit the AI so he won't build a city unless it is 4 tiles away from another city. Maybe this is a civ specific thing, but I noticed some civs building cities stupidly close to each other. Yet, civs like the Germans are building them at least 4 tiles away. This makes keeping German cities much more preferable than others.

8. Army - attack only once is not nice. This, plus what I listed earlier about army shortcomings. Considering how long it takes to create an army. The only nice thing is that it is the closest to stack moving you can get.

9. Upgrade all. It be nice if you could, say in the military advisor screen, upgrade all units of a specific type.

Let's say I could make musketmen, but most of my troops were pikemen. Then I could go to the advisor screen and upgrade all pikemen to musketmen. This would affect all pikemen in cities that could actually build musketmen (has a barrack and the appropriate resource). This was a nice feature in SMAC that I miss.

10. It be nice if bombarding actually killed military units, not just civilians. Also, it be nice if it targeted the military unit BEFORE targeting the tile upgrades. This is really nice for when you are bombarding invaders.

Since artillery has been done (sadly) to where it is best used for defence than offence - it is important to not have it destroy tile improvements if there's an enemy there.

11. The ability to remove items from the queues would be nice.

12. Global warming indicator (the sun) isn't very useful or intuitive.