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  • #16
    You asked:
    1. Do you start your first wars right as you bump up against another civ or do you fill in the available spaces with settlers before pumping resources into your military?
    I trade. especially techs, also since I usually have the best maps, I sell those for massive profits. I put two def. units into each city and move them to a military city as I build barracks and move to veteran troops.



    2. Do you build barracks before your first wars?

    Barracks are low on my list at first, they come right before courthouses which are at the bottom of my list at first.

    3. Are there any other improvements you feel must be built in early game? I'm a big proponent of temples to expand my borders but it feels like they slow down my ability to get things cracking militarily. When do the libraries, marketplaces, and courthouses go up?
    I build tech imporvements first, then markets banks and such, happiness are last. I try to build every wonder I can, just so I have it and no one else can use it


    4. Is there a consensus on high mobility armies vs. stronger but slower armies? I've always relied on horseman, knights, cavalry, and their unique equivalents, but I've noticed some people are high on better attack value + artillery.

    Stronger is better. It's tedious to fight cosntantly pouring troops into a city while the enemy heals and rebuilds.

    5. Do you go through oscillating wars taking a few cities at a time or do you go for broke? Does this differ from early to late game?

    I go for broke. I figure, you make'em mad now they're gonna be mad at you for the rest of the game. Take'me out!

    6. Obviously, your ability to decimate another civilization depends largely on your ability to avoid revolts in the cities you have just taken. When you're pushing deep into another civ's territory, how many troops do you devote to garrisons in the rear of your offensive? How does that number change as the game goes on?

    Same as my cities. I leave two troops and whoever's wounded. The revolt will go away eventually.

    7. Do you care what other civs think of you? For a long-time I subscribed to the go-it-alone philosophy but in my most recent game I really took the sting out of an AI offensive by bribing an enemy in their rear into an alliance. They never really recovered. Do you foster the good relationships over time or do you just wait till you need them and pay the full price then?

    I coudl give a rip about how they like me. I'm usually the strongest bully on the block and when they threaten me, I go into war mode.

    8. What traits have the biggest impact? I'm growing fond of agricultural and have always loved religious and industrious. I saw a few people mention commercial in another thread but I can't really wrap my head around it. I suppose the lower corruption gives you a higher ceiling, but without the productivity advantages you get from some of the other traits you seem less likely to realize that ceiling.

    I like scientific and industrious. You climb the tech tree faster and build quicker.

    9. Do you stick with a particular government in most games or do you switch back and forth? Do you stay at peace long enough to make a conversion to democracy/republic worthwhile? Do you try to fight short wars in a democracy/republic and end them quick to avoid the weariness? Or do you stick with the war governments? I've always opted for communism in the mid-late game to keep my border cities from being useless. Is there a better way to wage your conquests?

    I go straight for democracy by way of Republic. I found I can wage soem small wars under democracy without too much problem. I once had a major revolt due to war weariness and went into anarchy but i can't remember if that was Civ II or Civ III

    Happy hunting
    Poised for conflict at Ground Zero, ready for a war!
    Many nordic Fighting men, their swords and shields all gleam in the sun.
    Attention: All planets of the Solar Federation, we have assumed control.
    http://saveamerica21.tripod.com

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    • #17
      Re: Taking my Game to the Next Level

      I might be repeating some things. Oh well...

      Originally posted by QuestGAV
      1. Do you start your first wars right as you bump up against another civ or do you fill in the available spaces with settlers before pumping resources into your military?
      I fill available land first. I go bonking heads if I feel my early expansion was not enough. In general this happens if my empire is too small to sustain a tech lead.

      Originally posted by QuestGAV
      2. Do you build barracks before your first wars?
      The deal is simple: all unit-building cities should get Barracks before building units. I usually try to get them up quickly in my first or second city (the one with less food). The reduced casualties of Veterans more than make up for the cost of this building.

      Originally posted by QuestGAV
      3. Are there any other improvements you feel must be built in early game?
      Granaries rule. They make your civ grow like crazy, allowing more Settlers and Workers. Then Barracks for unit-cranking cities. Then Libraries, Markets, Courthouses, the order depending on the game. Libraries first if playing Scientific. Markets first, if lots of luxuries available. Courthouses first in very bad cities (around 50% and more corruption).

      Originally posted by QuestGAV
      4. Is there a consensus on high mobility armies vs. stronger but slower armies?
      Usually I want Armies as fast as possible. But, defensive Armies are awesome when mounting sea invasions, or defending choke points.

      Originally posted by QuestGAV
      5. Do you go through oscillating wars taking a few cities at a time or do you go for broke? Does this differ from early to late game?
      No. I initiate very few wars, and those often end in the extinction of some people. However, if someone asks for trouble (i.e. declares on me), he will get kicked, and he will lose cities. This depends heavily on the map, as I prefer random ones.

      Originally posted by QuestGAV
      6. Obviously, your ability to decimate another civilization depends largely on your ability to avoid revolts in the cities you have just taken. When you're pushing deep into another civ's territory, how many troops do you devote to garrisons in the rear of your offensive? How does that number change as the game goes on?
      My civ usually has a good culture. I make sure all conquered cities have the whole city radius inside my borders (plant new cities, or buy cheap cultural buildings). I add 2-4 units to keep them safe. This is usually enough to stop any flipping.

      If you have less culture, or cannot move borders by culture rushes, consider razing cities, or starving them to 1 population after conquered. This is ugly, but it works.

      If you can wipe out a whole civ quickly, you need no help against flips, because none can occur. This is difficult to do, but the effect is a 100% certainty.

      Originally posted by QuestGAV
      7. Do you care what other civs think of you? Do you foster the good relationships over time or do you just wait till you need them and pay the full price then?
      I care for them, I nurture them. Then, I suck away all their blood cash.

      Deals last 20 turns in Civ3. Never, ever deliberately break one. Except if you have a very, very good (read: lucrative) reason.

      Originally posted by QuestGAV
      8. What traits have the biggest impact?
      As far as I can tell, Agricultural rocks. Other that that, I like Industrious, Commercial, and Scientific. But Agricultural rocks.

      Originally posted by QuestGAV
      9. Do you stick with a particular government in most games or do you switch back and forth?
      I play rather peaceful games, with wars very time-limited. For this style, Republic wins most bets. If my empire ever gets that big, I might switch to Communism (yes, even at peace!). Democracy is fine if playing Religious, and only then.
      Seriously. Kung freaking fu.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Taking my Game to the Next Level

        Originally posted by QuestGAV

        1. Do you start your first wars right as you bump up against another civ or do you fill in the available spaces with settlers before pumping resources into your military?
        It all depends on how quickly I meet my neighbors and the situation when I do. My first war generally happens as soon as I think I've got my flanks secured against the target's exploring warriors. Nothing worse than a lone warrior sneaking up on you and taking an undefended town before you can get somebody to it.

        2. Do you build barracks before your first wars?
        Other than my first few warriors, I build barracks before building units, so yes.

        3. Are there any other improvements you feel must be built in early game? I'm a big proponent of temples to expand my borders but it feels like they slow down my ability to get things cracking militarily. When do the libraries, marketplaces, and courthouses go up?
        As UnO said, a couple of early granaries. I generally let temples go until I can no longer cure unhappiness by building settlers.

        4. Is there a consensus on high mobility armies vs. stronger but slower armies? I've always relied on horseman, knights, cavalry, and their unique equivalents, but I've noticed some people are high on better attack value + artillery.
        I like a mix. Mobile forces are great for diverting from the main attack and taking some outlying towns, but I usually want a strong SOD with swords and cats, in the ancient era, for hitting the enemy's core.

        5. Do you go through oscillating wars taking a few cities at a time or do you go for broke? Does this differ from early to late game?
        When I played with culture flips turned on, I felt like I had to eliminate the civ ASAP to avoid losing cities back to him. With them off, I'll spare an enemy once I see that I've broken him, and come back later to finish him off once he no longer serves a purpose.

        6. Obviously, your ability to decimate another civilization depends largely on your ability to avoid revolts in the cities you have just taken. When you're pushing deep into another civ's territory, how many troops do you devote to garrisons in the rear of your offensive? How does that number change as the game goes on?
        Only enough to hold a town the enemy could strike that turn. I fix unhappiness with specialists in conquered cities, and clean up resistance when I have spare units, for instance a cav that needs to heal for a couple of turns.

        7. Do you care what other civs think of you? For a long-time I subscribed to the go-it-alone philosophy but in my most recent game I really took the sting out of an AI offensive by bribing an enemy in their rear into an alliance. They never really recovered. Do you foster the good relationships over time or do you just wait till you need them and pay the full price then?
        I'll do the bare minimum to maintain good relations, i.e. establishing embassies, trying to regularly trade, etc. In other words, I keep an eye toward good relations, but don't go out of my way to keep them polite, since their turn at the end of my sword will come eventually, and after that they'll be furious with me.

        8. What traits have the biggest impact? I'm growing fond of agricultural and have always loved religious and industrious. I saw a few people mention commercial in another thread but I can't really wrap my head around it. I suppose the lower corruption gives you a higher ceiling, but without the productivity advantages you get from some of the other traits you seem less likely to realize that ceiling.
        Agricultural is great, and so is seafaring, depending on the map. I like commercial because it gives me a larger core with which to build my war machine. On huge maps, that can be a pretty hefty advantage. Expansionist, religious and scientific are nice, but I can live without them, too. Industrious, post-nerf, is still a pretty strong trait, especially for someone who plays most of the game in republic, like I do (freeing up unit support space by requiring fewer workers).

        9. Do you stick with a particular government in most games or do you switch back and forth? Do you stay at peace long enough to make a conversion to democracy/republic worthwhile? Do you try to fight short wars in a democracy/republic and end them quick to avoid the weariness? Or do you stick with the war governments? I've always opted for communism in the mid-late game to keep my border cities from being useless. Is there a better way to wage your conquests?
        Unless I'm religious, I get into republic and stay there.
        Solomwi is very wise. - Imran Siddiqui

        Comment


        • #19
          Good for you on starting the AU games, QG!!! Don't worry about them being older... I played the first several last fall and had quite a bit of fun (again).

          Some random comments:

          * I still like oscillating wars, and really have not had any problems with CFs.

          * When I do go on a rampage of a given AI civ, to the death, I prolly overkill it... 100 offensive units seems like such a nice round number, whether that be Swords, Knights, Cavs, or Tanks (or their UU equivalent). Or maybe 200 is better...

          * On the other hand, I once got infected with something I call 'Arrianitis'... symptoms include a rabid desire for all 8 lux resources, TOTAL build-outs of all cities whether native or captured, polite or gracious relations with as many AI civs as possible (until the feel the sword), etc. My own twist is that, yes, I must own all the GWs, but I don't mind capturing them (maybe prefer it). Ultimate Power (TM).

          * Also, my citizens should be HAPPY, goddmmit to hell!!! So, yeah, I still build just about all the happiness improvements... I especially prioritize the early ones, i.e., Temples and Colosseums, if I am short on lux resources at the beginnning.

          * And one more thing: Republic SUCKS!!!!
          The greatest delight for man is to inflict defeat on his enemies, to drive them before him, to see those dear to them with their faces bathed in tears, to bestride their horses, to crush in his arms their daughters and wives.

          Duas uncias in puncta mortalis est.

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          • #20
            Well, sure, if you plan on drawing your wars out as long as possible.

            On huge maps, I find that by the time I'm in the industrial age, my empire has long since passed the "Communism Inversion Point", where it's just so big that every city's rank, under communism, is greater than the OCN. I find a highly productive core more useful than 300 semi-productive cities and my two capitals, or at least easier to manage . Republic lets me a) take advantage of the commerce bonus, b) keep my core churning out tech and units like there's no tomorrow, c) avoid what invariably becomes a 7-9 turn anarchy, and d) make war pretty much at will, especially if I can catch AI units in my territory and provoke a declaration.

            On your other points, as we've discussed before, the 8 luxury thing is key. Control four or more organically, and have the others through trade, at least, and you'll be unstoppable. I've broken myself of the total buildout thing, but I do try to get all the first tier improvements in every town. Oh, and captured wonders rock. All the benefit, none of the work, and all the fun of getting them.
            Solomwi is very wise. - Imran Siddiqui

            Comment


            • #21
              Well, I don't play huge maps. I just ran a test on one for a few turns to see what reserach rate was like.

              I do think that if you have 300 cities even on huge maps, it doesn't really matter what your govt is, the game is already over, you just need to finish the quest for domination.
              1st C3DG Term 7 Science Advisor 1st C3DG Term 8 Domestic Minister
              Templar Science Minister
              AI: I sure wish Jon would hurry up and complete his turn, he's been at it for over 1,200,000 milliseconds now.

              Comment


              • #22
                Well, this was part of the AU Mod 506. Size 6 cities produced my Knights at a sufficent rate. I also played that with the no library rule, so science would have sucked even if I let the core grow.

                I was only using half the number of units that Fedualism allowed at the end, so yes I could have safety built aquaducts in what I considered the core.

                Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx

                Some of us would disagree with that point on Feudalism, but it ends up a matter of extreme unusual style.

                I've never understood the whole fascination with keeping cities under 7 for Feudalism, though. Let em grow! Border, hopelessly corrupt, and conquered towns will provide the unit support you need. You just got to keep feeding that Feudalism monster more (conquered, and pop rushed into submission/unitsupport) small cities to keep it going and let the core grow.
                1st C3DG Term 7 Science Advisor 1st C3DG Term 8 Domestic Minister
                Templar Science Minister
                AI: I sure wish Jon would hurry up and complete his turn, he's been at it for over 1,200,000 milliseconds now.

                Comment


                • #23
                  In my opinion, good trading techniques will cover a multitude of small errors, get to meet the other civs, trade techs, luxuries etc, don't break them, initiate wars against civs you do not trade with only. I do not go for ICS, too many cities make game take too long to play, but even on demigod I can trade my way to the tech lead early in the medieval age and begin to dominate. Fight as much as you want if you are a warmonger, but make it easy for yourself, pull other civs into the war, 2 can pull down a civ much quicker than 1, and civs at war always learn slower, so keep them fighting each other with appropiate alliances

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                  • #24
                    My lone real trouble at emperor so far is how much early wars are dragging down my economy. I'm eating a tech disadvantage with lots of mounted warriors, but it seems like a bad habit to get into. I tend to punctuate my wars with a short flurry of improvement building, which seems more efficient than intermixing improvements with reinforcements during a war. How do you guys handle that?

                    The lead starts to develop fairly early, soon after I start pumping out my horsemen-type units. By the time I have achieved my goals in whatever war I'm in the majority of the AI civs are up 3-4 techs. I've got enough cities that I should be able to close the gap eventually, but it'll sure put a crimp on expansion at least till Cavalry (and it's a fairly long jump from their feudalism to me putting together a decent amount of cav).

                    To some extent, I think I could reduce this by micromanaging my workers better and anticipating what and where I'll need them rather than just improving nearby tiles that look good. But I don't think it'll close the whole gap. Any tips on managing economic/scientific growth during the early game for a smoother transition?

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                    • #25
                      Do you have any save files you can post here? It's easier to give suggestions if we're able to see exactly what you're doing.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        .sav file

                        Here you go. From what I see I'll probably win the game but I'll be essentially spinning my wheels until Steam Power/Industrialism and start cranking out hordes of cavalry to overpower people.

                        I've been in my current war a bit too long and the Byzantines have reinforced their cities and I'm in the dreaded "war of attrition" that jon warned me against earlier. They've got a couple juicy cities nearby and I just haven't been able to resist the temptation to throw more MWs at them. At the previous level the AI would have run out of steam by this point in a war but here they appear to be holding me steady, or at least making me pay dearly for my advances.

                        So? Do I go for the kill with the Byzantines? Take an equal peace and go balls-out economy & culture? Take peace with the Byzantines and grab that lovely river valley from the Russians? Where am I currently deficient?

                        grr... can't attach it. File size is 508kb

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                        • #27
                          Zipped it up and got it down to 453kb.
                          Attached Files

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                          • #28
                            I feel like I'm spamming in my own thread here, but I played it out a bit further tonight to see what happens. I took Trebizond and made peace with the Byzantines. I closed the tech gap with some aggressive trading... I'm really starting to see the benefit of being proactive about checking what's available for deals each turn. I may not have closed the research gap, but I'm binging on improvements now so that should help.

                            My downfall for this game may be my slow cultural start. I'll try and close that gap too but I may simply have ignored it for too long. Any future aggression is going to be curtailed by the extreme number of forces I'll have to use to prevent CFs. It should be interesting to see whether I can make my invasions stick or whether we'll simply toss them back and forth.

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                            • #29
                              Try massive starvation of captured cities.
                              And also try not garrisioning at all the high flip possiblities but instead having a couple of units in the next tile over.
                              Who cares if such a city flips, you take it right back.
                              1st C3DG Term 7 Science Advisor 1st C3DG Term 8 Domestic Minister
                              Templar Science Minister
                              AI: I sure wish Jon would hurry up and complete his turn, he's been at it for over 1,200,000 milliseconds now.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                To tell you the truth, I really hate seeing a map in the 400AD time frame and maybe a third of the map has been exposed.

                                You are missing contacts with about 8 civs, this is a big problem.

                                I also do not like seeing so much unroaded territory at this stage.

                                Nearly all towns have a barracks and are making troops. You will not be able to support them for long and most will have to abandoned, unless you commit to total war and stop researching.

                                I would be very careful about going with Monarchy on a huge map that is pangea. It will be very expensive to maintain all the troops needed to MP all your towns and slow down your empire.

                                This is a strategy for even higher levels or all out warmonggering.

                                You can trade Eng to Zulu for Feudalism and stop researching. This will raise cash for upgrades and steals (if you cannot extort techs).

                                You will be hard pressed to get Sun or Leos with the capitol you have. It has no BG tiles and is size 8 with no prebuild. It will cost a fortune to upgrade to pikes and knights and you must or face big problems soon.

                                The Ai's will probably form alliances in the next war and you have nothing to offer to get friends. This means you will have to face multiple enemies and be in big trouble, unless you can smash someone quickly.

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