ICP & Bonus Squares

[aksully]

I guess I need to read the AU mod thread in depth to see what it is all about. Anyhow, for grins I decided to compare the effect of changing to either Republic or Feudalism at ehre I was in my particular game. Should have done screenshots but oh well. Here's the basic down and dirty.

Costs REP FEUD

SCI -81 -58 Slider set at 50%
ENT 0 0 Slider set at 0%
CORUP -159 -96
MAINT -31 -31
UNITS -82 0

The difference in not having to pay unit costs, combined with decreased war weariness would seem to favor the ability to wage war under a feudal gov. I was surprised to see the degree of Corruption in Rep compared to Feudal.

Sully

[joncnunn]

Yosho, stock rules for Republic were indeed changed in Conquests.

Was:
0/0/0 cost 1 over the limit. Nusaince Corruption

Now:
1/3/4 cost 2 over the limit. Nusaince Corruption

[joncnunn]

Combaring raw corruption numbers between represntive and non-representive govts is misleading.

Assuming your not in a GA and also do not own the Colosus, the comparable Fedu Corruption number is between -128 and -144. [Note that this is also why Democracy is unpopular with many players under stock rules.]

This is becuse the AU Mod reduced corruption of Fedualism to the same level as Democracy.

That -82 in unit support costs under Republic with 81 sceince @ 50 is a good example about being eaten alive by support costs. [It's too early to be 41 units over the limit! ] If your not needing to upgrade units in the near future, you can boost the science rate under Fedualism to 80% and be producing more beakers than Republic at 50%. The Military Advisor will tell you if you could support even more units for free under Fedualism.

WW level is the same between Fedualism and Republic, the difference is that in Fedualism, you have an additional tool to fight any form of unhappiness, namely MP.

Originally posted by aksully
I guess I need to read the AU mod thread in depth to see what it is all about. Anyhow, for grins I decided to compare the effect of changing to either Republic or Feudalism at ehre I was in my particular game. Should have done screenshots but oh well. Here's the basic down and dirty.

Costs REP FEUD

SCI -81 -58 Slider set at 50%
ENT 0 0 Slider set at 0%
CORUP -159 -96
MAINT -31 -31
UNITS -82 0

The difference in not having to pay unit costs, combined with decreased war weariness would seem to favor the ability to wage war under a feudal gov. I was surprised to see the degree of Corruption in Rep compared to Feudal.

Sully

[Theseus]

Thusly, early Republic SUCKS.

/Green Acres

"Feuuu-dalism is the gov to be,
Pop-rushing is the life for me,
Towns spreading out, so far and wide,
Keep your voting
Just give me that pop that died."

/end Green Acres

[Modo44]

Originally posted by joncnunn
That -82 in unit support costs under Republic is a good example about being eaten alive by support costs. [41 units over the limit!]

Only 41? That's nothing, except if it happens extremely early. Later on, the Republic will more than pay for excess military build up. Just do research, and sell techs. This can grant tons of cash, except on ridiculously low, and ridiculously high difficulty levels.


As to MP units being a cost, that's not so clear either. If the city has a Market, a Library, or more improvements, you gain more than just 1 Gold for 1 Trade unit. If this is cheaper that the lux slider, I don't know. It depends, I guess. Might be worth it for governments, that have a relatively high free support (i.e. Feudalism, Communism, Fascism).

[joncnunn]

Originally posted by Modo44

Only 41? That's nothing, except if it happens extremely early. Later on, the Republic will more than pay for excess military build up. Just do research, and sell techs. This can grant tons of cash, except on ridiculously low, and ridiculously high difficulty levels.

Edited the original to be more clear it was the ratio of unit support costs to size of the economy I was noticiing.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by aksully
I guess I need to read the AU mod thread in depth to see what it is all about. Anyhow, for grins I decided to compare the effect of changing to either Republic or Feudalism at ehre I was in my particular game. Should have done screenshots but oh well. Here's the basic down and dirty.

Costs REP FEUD

SCI -81 -58 Slider set at 50%
ENT 0 0 Slider set at 0%
CORUP -159 -96
MAINT -31 -31
UNITS -82 0

The difference in not having to pay unit costs, combined with decreased war weariness would seem to favor the ability to wage war under a feudal gov. I was surprised to see the degree of Corruption in Rep compared to Feudal.

Sully

some information seems to be missing.

What was net income under republic vs feudalism?

[joncnunn]

Can be aproximenated derived:

Republic:

Net tax income after corruption and science: Aprox 81.

Maintance -31

Before units = +50

After units = -32 deficit per turn. More likely to be under stating the deficit than overstating it.

Fedualism:

Net Tax income after corruption and science : Aprox 58

Maintance : -31
Before units : +27
After units : +27 surplus per turn.

In both cases, clearly a FP is in order somewhere (if not built already) along with Court Houses.

[aksully]

I'm seem to recall browsing through one of many threads about captured workers. Do the experienced Civ 3 experts choose to add them to your own cities and then resurrect them?

And does anyone have a link to discussion of governments as they relate to C3C play? I'm kind of surprised that there isn't a "disertation" on this in the Strategy-General area. But I understand that little has been added as content since 2001-02 except in the threads.

I'd appreciate it if someone has a link to another Civ 3 site that may have a reference in comparing Govs in the Conquests realm.

Sully

[Solomwi]

Two captured workers equal one native worker, only they're maintenance free, so I never add them to my cities, just from that aspect. When you also factor in potential happiness problems if you go to war with their parent civ, it seems, to me at least, like a no-brainer. There's the issue of the tedium of moving around twice as many workers, but that's a separate matter from what is best for your empire, and isn't something that I've lost much sleep over, honestly.

In fact, post-railroads, I strive for a workforce of primarily captured workers, simply because that's more room under the unit support cap for units that kill things and blow stuff up. Consider that right around that same time, unless you're playing a pangea map, your navy should grow immensely with the introduction of actual warships (I rarely build frigates or ironclads), and your air force comes into being, both putting further pressure on the unit cap if you're in republic. Under communism or fascism, you will probably have enough room under the cap to not worry about it much.

[Xorbon]

There's one more thing about captured workers which is they cause poorer relations with the civ who used to own them. I'll sometimes trade them back to their parent civ, though it doesn't seem to do much good wrt relations.

[Solomwi]

If memory serves, that turned out to be a myth, which would explain why it doesn't help . The AI's attitude toward you is harmed if they have one of your workers, though, for some strange reason. It's a temporary effect, though, and small.

Found it, from Bamspeedy's article on CFC about AI attitude:

+1 If you sell them one of your workers (not sure why this is, maybe it’s confused and thinks you were at war at one point and thinks that is how it got your slave?). You restore the point if you buy the worker back.

+1 for each captured worker you disband (of their nationality). Think of it as disbanding = killing. Using the slaves, selling them, or joining them into cities (even if they starve off), seems to have no effect.

So keep those slave workers without worry.

[Rommel2D]

Originally posted by Solomwi
Two captured workers equal one native worker, ...

What does this work out to be if you're industrious? 3 to 1?

[punkbass2000]

Yes.

[aksully]

Thanks everyone for the input! I had been keeping them especially considering the cap issue.

Sully