ICP & Bonus Squares

[aksully]

Hi, New here and wanted to ask for some advice. First, is it desirable to start your first city on a bonus square like wheat, cattle, wine, etc if it is within 2 squares of your starting point? Or just "plop" down and build a road?

Second, I've just been browsing thru the weath of info here. It is incredible if not overwhelming! Seems like at the Monarch and above levels I am being constantly outpaced by the AI. I guess it has to do with my build order. I like to get a granary in early but then I'm behind the curve and the neighboring Civs have me hemmed in. Any suggestions?

Thanks!
Sully

[Arrian]

Don't settle a city on a bonus tile unless doing it gets you benifits that outweigh the loss of that tile. The city tile almost always is 2 food, 1 shield (I say almost always because I think building on an iron source will result in 2f, 2s for the city tile). So avoid settling on cows, wheat, etc.

It's mainly the food bonus tiles you want to avoid settling on. I think building on a commerce bonus tile (say... dyes) preserves the bonus commerce (and of course immediately hooks up the dyes to your city).

As for the rest... yeah, read up on the "Must Read" threads. If you're still having trouble and want advice, the best method tends to be posting some saves (4000bc save, and then one later on, like around the BC/AD changeover, when everyone has to get a new watch). Then others can have a look at what you're doing/not doing and offer specific advice.

-Arrian

[Modo44]

You get 2 food in the city square regardless of the city location. Bonus food is lost, if you put a city on that tile. Also, you don't get any additional production from settling on a Bonus Grassland tile. So you don't want to put cities there, unless there's no other option.

Commerce bonuses are carried over to the city square.

Hills with a bonus Shield resource (like Iron, Coal) will give you +1 Shield for the city. Hills without a bonus resource will give you +1 Shield once the city hits size 7. I don't know if this increases for metros (size 13+). Basically, cities on those tiles lose you some Shields.


And yes, read the basic threads.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=59216

[aksully]

Hey Arrian, Thanks for the reply! I wondered if you placed the city on a resource if you would lose it or not. Now I know. I've started reading the stuff here and I see that you are well-respected. In your experiences..what combination of traits (industrious, scientific, etc have you found that helps to keep up with the AI that obviously gets some "help" on its own?

And is there a kind of standard build order of units that you try to follow in the first 10 turns?

Appreciate the feedback! And I'll check out the thread.
Sully

[vmxa1]

aksully you did not mention what version you are playing. Some concepts are less effective in Conquest, than in Civ3 or PTW.

Also I would suggest that starting at Monarch level may not be good choice. It is where the AI starts to get extra support and other bonus items.

Also it plays a bit harder in C3C than in vanilla due to a number of changes such as corruption and resource allocation, not to mention more wonders in the early game.

If you based your selection on having played Civ2, forget that experience other than for amusement.

I would say a std build order does not really exist, unless the game parameters are always the same. Look at some of the AU games that show details on the first few turns. That may be useful.

[Theseus]

Originally posted by Arrian
... like around the BC/AD changeover...

-Arrian

Had to re-set my watch!!

Welcome aboard, akscully!!!

[Geronimo]

ouch. I wish I'd noticed the lost food bonuses a long time back. I think I've managed to delete at least a half dozen food bonuses so far by settling the city right on top of them.

So to make it perfectly clear, food bonuses are completely lost by a city on them.

bonuses to trade are unaffected by having a city on them

bonuses to gold (gold = 'shields' in civ3 right?) are lost when a city is placed on them.

Is that correct?

[Modo44]

Right-click on a tile to see how many of each it produces.


Trade = Gold (divided into Taxes/Science/Luxuries). This is not lost, when a city is ontop of it. Luxuries, and some other resources, provide trade bonuses.

Production = Shields. Most of those lost, when a city is put ontop of the tile.

Food = ...err... Food. This is lost if a city is put ontop of the tile. The city square will always produce 2 Food, regardless of terrain.

[Solomwi]

Gold = trade, Geronimo. Other than that, and the fact that shield bonus resources give you +1 shield, and so aren't completely lost, you're right.

All other things being equal, you want to put your city on the lowest food site possible. Consider settling on a desert tile. You've just turned a no food tile into a two food tile.

[Geronimo]

so hills are good choices for city sites in civ3?

[Geronimo]

Are mountains the only type of terrain in which it is not possible to found a city? I remember trying to found a city on a mountain because it was the only square available to cover at least 12 squares of the 21 square opening due to a lake wrapping around most of the site, but when I got my settler on the mountain the option to build could not be made to appear there. i had to settle much further out and split the territroy between two poorly placed cities.

OTOH i've since seen cities founded on tundra, and desert and apparently *everything* except for mountains.

[patcon]

Originally posted by Geronimo
Are mountains the only type of terrain in which it is not possible to found a city? I remember trying to found a city on a mountain because it was the only square available to cover at least 12 squares of the 21 square opening due to a lake wrapping around most of the site, but when I got my settler on the mountain the option to build could not be made to appear there. i had to settle much further out and split the territroy between two poorly placed cities.

OTOH i've since seen cities founded on tundra, and desert and apparently *everything* except for mountains.

AFIR you can't build cities in marsh tiles either, under normal rules. Many players have suggested flagging other terrain as "no city build" types to preven the AI from building cities in apparently bizarre spots like in teh middle of a tundra. Whenever I see an AI city in tundra or desert, it tells me that oil or some other strategic resource is going to show up in that area later in the game, as the AI knows where these will be even if it hasn't yet gotten the tech to discover them.

As Solomwi says, if I have a desert tile in the midst of otherwise good terrain, that's where I'll put my city.

[aksully]

Thanks Theseus! ANd I'm playing Conquests v 1.22.
Probably by the time I get the build order down at Monarch and above down...Civ 4 will be released!

Sully

PS I really enjoy playing the War in the Pacific Conquest.

[aksully]

Hey Patcon....nice comment...I hadn't thought of the AI knowing what the human doesn't. Was wondering why it was placing those cities on those "barren" spots. Me thinks I need to send some "guys" over there to investigate!

Sully

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by aksully
Hey Patcon....nice comment...I hadn't thought of the AI knowing what the human doesn't. Was wondering why it was placing those cities on those "barren" spots. Me thinks I need to send some "guys" over there to investigate!

Sully

In my current game it appears that the AI also places cities on such barren spots when there is simply no other unused spaces remaining in the game. I now think the AI is designed to plant cities until absolutely no location of any sort whatsoever remains in which to place one.