ICP & Bonus Squares

[Modo44]

Originally posted by aksully
Curious...do you more experienced players let the governors do your city management for you or do you prefer to do it yourself? I'm a micro-manager by nature myself.

I do it quite often on my easy-going difficulty (currently Emperor). Saves a lot of MM. But if playing on high difficulty, there's no way around managing all citizens per hand. The governors, even if used correctly (the "emphasize food/production/trade" option is your friend), lose too much in the long run. They are only good for easy games, or when you are an absolute beginner.

I tried using governors to choose production, but there seems to be no way for that to work well, so just don't bother.

Originally posted by aksully
Would also like your thoughts on tech tree strategy.

Research things the others don't have. Research expensive things, to trade them around for huge revenue. Don't bother with non-mandatory technology (exceptions: Monarchy or Republic, Literature; sometimes: Military Tradition, Economics, Communism, Sanitation). Don't listen to the Science Advisor. His choices will surely doom you, except on very low difficulty levels.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by aksully
Arrian,

I really appreciate the time to answer the question! Sid needs to hire you onto his team! How did you get so knowledgeable about the game? I'm making it a point this weekend to reread my manuals and references. I've obviously missed some stuff that is crucial to the beginning of the game which sets the whole tone of things.

When you have some time I'd enjoy reading your thoughts on tech development strategy.

Sully

You're welcome. As for my game knowledge... I've played FAR too much CivIII, and spent FAR, FAR, FAR too much time on these forums.

Fair warning on the manual... it's not really a very good source. There are inaccuracies, and also there have been many patches to Conquests - some of which made rather important changes to how the game works. So even if the manual was originally accurate, it might not be now.

By the way, there are lots of people on this forum who know as much - or more - than I do, and many of them are better players. You've come to the right place!

-Arrian

[aksully]

Originally posted by joncnunn
Tech tree stategy is too long, I get logged out and lose an entire post when trying to replay to that topic.

Thanks for trying though...any links to one that is online? Or I'll just put that on my To Do List !

Sully

[Arrian]

Theseus, as usual, makes a good point about trait synergy.

And it's true, the Vikings... em, Scandanavia, have some serious trait synergy. It's just one I don't like to play

I prefer the Iroquois: Ag for a great REX, Com to better develop it. And then there is the Mounted Warrior if you need it (and have horses, of course).

The Maya have it to - Ag/Ind = best REXers in the game. Don't much like the UU, though. The Maya kinda remind me of China in PTW: Raw Power. It ain't necessarily pretty, but they sure as hell get the job done.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

The general idea is to use beelines to go for valueable techs and then do some smart trading to get the ones you missed while doing the beeline, and still come out ahead.

The first that springs to mind is the obvious Philosophy beeline, because of the free tech. If you start with Alphabet (Com or Sea), this is fairly easy to do. In fact, playing on Monarch, I typically try to research Code of Laws first, then Philo, and take Republic as my free tech.

I'll hang on to Writing for a while, and maybe a few turns before I'm gonna get CoL, I'll trade that around for as much as I can get. Sometimes this doesn't work - sometimes the AI gets to writing faster than I'd like. But it works a lot.

Still, I typically manage to get Philo first, get Republic and switch over. Then I'll trade either Philo, CoL, or both to the AI for all sorts of goodies (I'm rather stingy with the AI - they have to pay up somethin' good, or they will remain dumb, period). Then I'll make a choice on whether or not to go for Monarchy (for more trading and/or to build the Hanging Gardens) or to press on to the medieval age will all possible speed. Sometimes I get lucky and the AI hasn't gotten to Polytheism yet. This is a very valueable tech, so I may go for that & Monarchy, trade them, and take a shot at the HG.

Backing up... if you're religious, there is the "southern" route - Mysticism, Polytheism, Monarchy. The last two have a lot of trade value.

The AI tends to prioritize the military techs and map making. Eventually construction (so if I have a choice of researching currency or construction, I typically pick currency).

How's that for a start? Anyone wanna jump in?

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Oh, one more thing, I don't know about the others, but there are two techs I almost never trade to the AI:

Literature
Republic

It's one thing if I stumble across a horribly backward AI on a small island - then I might give them those things. But AI's that could challenge me? No.

-Arrian

[Theseus]

Others have answered for me about the Mayans, Sully... I actually don't mind a despotic GA that much, but not so damn early!!

Hmm... about traits and UUs... I'd suggest that you focus on late-ancient and early-medieval UUs, and get a feel for how they 'synergize' for yourself. So, as Arrian points out, the Iroqouis are are a strong contender, but I'd also suggest messing about with Egypt & Hittites (but use them latish, maybe wait for Horsemen), and Rome & Persia for the ancients, and any of the Knight-level UU civs for the medieval (and of course Scandy ).

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by joncnunn
Tech tree stategy is too long, I get logged out and lose an entire post when trying to replay to that topic.

Type it up in notepad and then paste it. You never have to worry about losing it, save it to the desktop until it was posted.

[Dominae]

Welcome aksully.

Agricultural is the best trait hands down.

After that, it's either Commercial or Seafaring because those give you Alphabet right off the bat. Alphabet is an extremely strong tech to start with: it's the most expensive (150% more trade value than Pottery and Ceremonial Burial), it allows you to build Curraghs right away for contacting other civs (assuming you have a coastal city), and most importantly it puts you that much closer to Philosophy and its free tech. Getting that free tech from Philosophy will either put you over the top barely 100 turns into the game, or will let you catch up to the competition in the blink of an eye. With two techs you can trade for everything all the AIs have available (techs, Gold, whatever).

So, IMO, Iroquois and Dutch are the most powerful civs. Personally I would go with the Dutch because I like Seafaring better than Commercial (reason: 3-move Curraghs) and I play on the higher difficulty levels where it's harder make Mounted Warriors really shine (sometimes it's just not wise to attack until the mid-Medieval era). The only problem with these two trait combinations is that you do not get any half-price improvements (well, except for Aqueducts), which can make you feel like you're crawling along. But just remember that with Agricultural, you are rarely "crawling along".

Religious is probably next, due to the short Anarchy thing. I like the 30-Shield Temples but recognize that they're not really essential: border expansion is mostly only needed when your city-spacing is somewhat wide, and the best way to fight cultural oppression is with swords and gunpowder, not Culture of your own.

Scientific is really close to Religious, IMO. If you rarely win the game before the Industrial era, I say Scientific is for you. Religous' only advantage in the late-game is a second switch to either Democracy or Communism, and IMO that's not as powerful as half-cost Universities and free techs. Oh, and Scientific has a greater chance of having an "oops, I win" Scientific Great Leader appear.

The last three traits are bleh. Expansionist is the best trait on the right maps (Huge, Pangea) and is also the best when you get a free Settler in the first 40 turns, but often you will get much less out of it (those players who swear by it are luckier than most!). Industrious is ok, but nothing to write home about. Finally, the best thing about Militaristic is the half-cost Harbors, but unortunately Seafaring does this too. Sometimes you "just win" with Militaristic because cheap Barracks and easy promotions are condusive to an early Military Great Leader, but this strat definitely does not work every game.

Trait synergy? Incans come to mind, for REXing. Babylonians for cultural dominance. Aztecs for early aggression. Vikings look synergistic on paper, but in my experience require a lot of work to pull off their mass Berzerker trick (no, the Vikings do not get 1/4-price Harbors). While not the most powerful civ around, Portugal is hands-down the best at getting Contacts.

[Theseus]

Regarding the governor, I used to pretty much leave it on for happiness all the time... as I've gotten better at managing citizens (the guys inside the city screen), I've developed an approach where I leave the governor OFF until a given city has the appropriate basics (i.e., Granary, Temple, Library Barracks, Market, although not in that order and not all of them in every city)... once a city is in pretty good shape, and assuming I have nothing special going on (like building a GW), I will then turn the governor on.

[Theseus]

Regarding the tech tree, pretty good advice above... let me stress NOT researching whatever the tech advisor says!!

BTW, note that you should proactively select your first tech to research the moment you build your first town... do NOT wait for the advisor to ask.

Here's a neat little trick for ya: On your first turn, before you make your first tech selection, press F10, and then view the space race... that will at least let you know who your opponents are, and you can figure out which of the first tier techs are already generally known.

[Arrian]

Heh, Dominae and I essentially agree on traits. And offered up the same two civs: the Iroquois & Dutch. Cool.

-Arrian

[Theseus]

I would throw in Byzantines as being synergistic as well.

[aksully]

Dominae and the rest of the guys... Thanks for all your input! Looks like I need to quit asking and git doing! It was interesting to see Dominae and Arrian's thought match up on Civ traits! Tonight the Iroquois nation arises! Tomorrow the Dutch! And Theseus...thanks for the F10 tip! I'll check it out on Turn 1.

I'm curious to see how Civ 4 will affect these and other strategies!??

Sully

[Dominae]

Originally posted by aksully
I'm curious to see how Civ 4 will affect these and other strategies!??

Unfortunately(?), I imagine most of the stuff you're reading here will not be at all applicable to Civ4. Personally, I think that's a good thing!