ICP & Bonus Squares

[Xorbon]

Originally posted by vmxa1
Not huge, but 100 shields that can be used in any city can be useful at times.

True, but this way they get to die with honour on the battlefield.

[Xorbon]

Originally posted by punkbass2000
The AI is hard-coded to not put units in an army if their movement points are lower than the armies'. This made sense in Van/PTW, because it would slow the army down, and it would usually help the AI make better offensive armies, as there are rarely units with more than one HP that aren't the best offensive unit of the time. In C3C, an army automatically gets +1 to its MP, ruling out many units of the time...

What? That's all it is?! You'd think, given that, that it would have been an easy fix for the developers!

[Theseus]

Ahhhh, unfortunately, just when we ('poly and CFC, I think) had helped Firaxis figure out the problem, developer support evaporated.

No worries... I like the solution we've come up with in the AU Mod. Weeeellll, that's not really entirely true: I tremendously miss the opportunity to upgrade Armies over time. But it's good enough.

And answering the above question: In stock Civ, no, never disband... upgrade instead, as the hps have tremendous value (i.e., 2xSwords+Rifle+Infantry). In the AU Mod, don't disband, but rather send that Sword Army into glorious death!!!

[aksully]

hey Theseus, Would you explain the AU MOD? What it is/what it does, how it affects gameplay, etc?

Appreciate it!

Sully

[Modo44]

AU Mod - description, and download. (link)

[aksully]

Oh my good gracious Modo44! Thanks! I have a lot to read through! It looks very well done. As I breezed through the list of changes I something that sparked a question....

I saw the comments about Feudalism. I usually make a beeline to Republic as I did in a game last night. When it was time for me to select the new gov I selected Republic but wondered about Feudalism. Which I hate to admit I had to look up to remember how it affected game play. Looking it over I couldn't think of a reason where Feudalism would be usefull to play.

My question is, What am I not understanding about this gov? Has anyone used it and if so, what are its advantages to use it versus Republic other than maybe war weariness???

Sully

[joncnunn]

Both Fedualism an Republic have low WW.
Fedualism does have police though.

Fedualism is most useful in situations where you'd get eaten alive by support costs running a Republic. (Few or NO size 7+ cities)

In the AU Mod 1.07 [but not stock], Fedualism also has a nod when your more interested in building units than reseraching.

Originally posted by aksully
Oh my good gracious Modo44! Thanks! I have a lot to read through! It looks very well done. As I breezed through the list of changes I something that sparked a question....

I saw the comments about Feudalism. I usually make a beeline to Republic as I did in a game last night. When it was time for me to select the new gov I selected Republic but wondered about Feudalism. Which I hate to admit I had to look up to remember how it affected game play. Looking it over I couldn't think of a reason where Feudalism would be usefull to play.

My question is, What am I not understanding about this gov? Has anyone used it and if so, what are its advantages to use it versus Republic other than maybe war weariness???

Sully

[vmxa1]

I have not tried Feudalism, but one thing that would be of great concern to me is the MP use.

I have found that being in a form of government that gets some of its happiness from MP's is going to raise the cost of support. You will need 2 or more units in most cities to get relieve. In say Republic, you can send most of those MP's out to protect front line cities or go to war.

I have not run the numbers, but I have used Monarchy and even Despotism all the way in sid games, to see what the effect was and I was always suffering form the need to have extra units for MP duty.

I just do not know if it is a trade that comes out a plus or a minus right now.

[joncnunn]

With stock rules:

The hypotechical all size 1 - 6 Republic is going to suffer from either lack of workers and/or double priced over the limit unit support. (Actually not fully hypotechical, check out the power of early warfare and notice ... [spoiler deleted ] )

Each size 1 - 6 town can either suppport a worker or a military unit somewhere on the map. Each additional one eats 2 GPT]

It's generally recomended that an Industrious civ have 1 Worker per Town and a non Industrious 1.5 Workers per town to keep up with improvemening tiles with pop growth. [Consider 2 slaves as 1 native worker if non-industrious and 3 slaves as 1 native worker if industrious.]

The same empire as Fedulaism:

5 units per city for free. Cities caped at size 6 aren't going to need much in the way of military police if you use your military to aquire more unique luxaries. 3 or 4 luxaries by themselves should suffice depending upon difficulty level.

Where Fedualism runs into problems is with Size 7+ cities. That's when the cities with few happiness structures really start benifiting from MP at the same time that unit support is cut to 2, and it's quite likely that the support is quickly going to go entirely towards MP if happiness structures not added.

The same empire as Monarchy:
2 units per city free. It probably does't need MPs yet any more than Fedualism. It would also have some issues but not quite as much as Fedualism for leting a city get too big without any happy structures. (At size 7, gets 4 unit per city free, once the city starts needing 3 MP, that's not leaving much for workers)

[Dominae]

joncnunn, could you please edit your post to remove the spoiler info for AU506? Thanks.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Dominae
joncnunn, could you please edit your post to remove the spoiler info for AU506? Thanks.

spoiler? I can see how that applies to movies or other kinds of fiction, but isn't AU506 just some apolyton flavor of a civ3 mod? What sort of spoiler effect were you concerned about? I'm guessing you weren't concerned about spoiling how it ends

[Solomwi]

Geronimo, I think he meant spoiler as in giving out information about the map, in case someone reading this thread intends to play AU 506 in the future. I'm not sure what that particular one is, and didn't see joncnunn's unedited post, but rather than being a flavor of a mod, the AU games are typically geared toward developing one or more aspects of the game, and the player's skills. They're pretty carefully crafted to that effect, and the ones I've seen have all been well done. All of that goes to waste if you start the game with more knowledge than was intended.

[joncnunn]

Without spoiling, it is entiled "The Power of Ancient Warfare" for good reason.

[Dominae]

Thanks Jon.

[Yosho]

Originally posted by vmxa1
I have not tried Feudalism, but one thing that would be of great concern to me is the MP use.

I have found that being in a form of government that gets some of its happiness from MP's is going to raise the cost of support. You will need 2 or more units in most cities to get relieve. In say Republic, you can send most of those MP's out to protect front line cities or go to war.


I have not run the numbers, but I have used Monarchy and even Despotism all the way in sid games, to see what the effect was and I was always suffering form the need to have extra units for MP duty.
I just do not know if it is a trade that comes out a plus or a minus right now.

Well, unless it was changed in Conquest, unit support is 1 gold per unit, and each unit you have doing MP duty reduces unhappiness by 1. That's the same cost that the maint. cost of a temple has, and if you have any improvements like marketplaces or libraries in your cities, cheaper then using the lux slider. If you don't have the MP's, you'd probably be spending more money on happiness in some other fashon, right?

Anyway, being in a government that allows MP's dosn't force you to use them if you need the forces elsewhere, but in times of peace, or any time you don't need all your forces at the front line, it gives you an economic bonus for having the troops you would have to have anyway. Granted, it dosn't make up for the economic disadvantage of monarchy compared to republic, but it seems like a fairly big advantage anyway.