Order of Production

[Dominae]

I would move the Worker South, then, assuming this does not reveal anything interesting, settle right away on the starting location. The reason I would move the Worker South is that River Bonus Grasslands are the best tile to improve in sight, and S is preferable to SE first because from the SE Bonus Grassland it can then use Roads to move to the northern one.

Depending on the type of game that I want to play (considering that this is Emperor meaning I would have quite a bit of leeway), I would have many options with this start. In the capital, I could either build Warriors, a Granary, or a Barracks then Archers. Each has its own strengths on Emperor. If this were Demigod or higher I would use the Bonus Grasslands to build a quick Granary. In both cases I would adjust my strategy around Bonus Food resources, if any were revealed.

[Krill]

oh, and FYI, this is a totally random map. Second one out of the RNG (First was a taundra start...I hope you will for give me.)

Klo, look at the tile 2223 of Thebes, and look at the edge of the fog. I think you will be suprised...

[Kloreep]

Krill: Indeed, I was. Decided to skip over that, though. Even I can have my fill of food at times, and the new pump locations would have had more corruption and less bonii...

Anyway, continuing:

3550 BC: My second warrior completes. I'll send this one north to explore in that direction and try to find other civilizations.

This will leave me without a garrison during the first turns of population 2, which means I'll have to use the luxury slider to keep the population happy. No big deal; when you have only one city, the luxury slider is a very exact thing, with little waste, and should always be used when you need it. And the commerce I'll pay is quite worth it to get my warrior out there ASAP. So, anyway, he moves 8

My first warrior will continue exploring the south a little more, and then head east. He moves 2 on to a mountain, and sees ANOTHER cattle! Wow. Hmm. I could found a city 2-2-2-1 of Thebes, which would be 5 distance, and mine rather than irrigate two of the cattle, which would hopefully make up for the greater corruption (5 distance rather than 3 at 2-2-2-1). I'll have to think about that as the settler completes.

3500 BC: Thebes grows. I put the new citizen on the bonus grass that was just roaded (the extra shield the forest offers won't help until 2 turns from now when the third warrior completes), up the luxury slider, and move the worker on to the game forest.

3450 BC: The worker begins chopping.

I have my warrior next to a hut, but I don't think I'll pop it. It's emperor so I'll probably just get barbs.

3400 BC: My third warrior completes. I decide to continue using the luxury slider and send it northeast. My first warrior, currently exploring the southwest to make sure there aren't any more food sources, will return once he's done to garrison Thebes.

Thebes starts building a settler, and I move the citizen on the tile 3 to the game, for an extra shield.

3300 BC: Chop finished. With the reduction in spt (but addition of 10 shileds to the build) and the increase in fpt, the settler will now complete in 4 turns just as the city grows to 3; perfect. The worker begins to irrigate. I move the game citizen back to the roaded bonus grass for now for more commerce; we don't need the extra food just yet.

The warrior in the south finishes looking around the southwest area by Thebes. It seems it really is just 4 food resources close at hand.

3200 BC: Research on Pottery finishes. Next: The Wheel

Also, I move the Thebes second citizen back to the game tile. Need to do that to make it grow in time.

3150 BC: The worker finishes irrigating the game tile.

3100 BC: First settler! What to do with the pump sites?

Thing is, if I move the cattle pump, the game pump will have to move too, so we actually get all cattle inside initial borders. And then their corruption ranks will be upset by closer-in cities I want to found west and north of Thebes.

So, I'll go ahead as planned. That third cattle will be in the cattle pump's boundaries with a temple someday.

Now, which to found first? Travel time for the settler is two turns either way. But, the game tile doesn't get any new food resources in our boundaries. So, cattle pump first. The settler moves 2.

Thebes only has one citizen left; I move it to the game tile. Build switched to a warrior for the moment, though I may change that to a settler once I calculate build and growth times (I'll only do that once I have to )

3050 BC: The settler moves in to position. It will found the city next turn.

The worker, now finished with the game tile, moves on to the forst 9 of the settler. Chopping htis will kill two birds with one stone: The shields will go to the new pump city, which will speed up its granary build, AND this will give us a regular grass tile to irrigate to get water to the two cattle tiles. (The other two tiles, if you'll look on the map, are both bonii, and one is already mined. Of course, it may be there's a bonus grass tile underneath, in which case we'll end up irrigating a bonus anyway.)

3000 BC: Memphis founded. It works the mined bonus grass, to get that granary built ASAP. Thebes continues to work the game so it can get another settler out ASAP.

Meanwhile, a warrior makes CONTACT with the Iroquois! They won't even accept Masonry & CB for Bronze Working, the turds.

2900 BC: Warrior makes contact with Babylon! They have BW & Alphabet, as well as Warrior Code, and they have The Wheel as well! We're not going to be able to make a deal with them.

But, it seems Alphabet and BW have cheapened enough that we can get either one, plus 10 gold, from the Iroquois. While BW gives spears, Alphabet is more expensive, so I'll take that.

2850 BC: Thebes grows. Also, I can see that it needs to do another settler right away, since it can.

The worker finishes chopping and begins a road.

2750 BC: The worker irrigates.

2630 BC: Worker moves on to the first cattle.

I'm now faced with a choice: I can lose 2 food in Thebes but get the settler one turn sooner (work a forest), or keep the 2 food and delay the settler a turn. I decide to get the settler sooner; the new city will grow as soon as its founded and make up the two food, and it can begin its granary sooner.

Also, I have to turn the luxury slider on again to keep Thebes happy. No big deal.

2590 BC: Contact with Greece! I trade them Masory for BW and 6 gold.

The worker on the first cattle begins irrigation.

2550 BC: Memphis grows. I have to move the luxury slider up a notch to get one of its commerce going to entertainment, but there's still no waste as this doesn't make Thebes move a second commerce there.

2510 BC: Thebes completes its second settler! I switch the build to a warrior, and have Memphis work the game tile, giving Thebes the mined bonus for now.

2470 BC: Irrigation of the first cattle complete. The second pump (Heliopolis) founded.

Workerforce switcharound: Thebes gets the game, Heliopolis gets the irrigated cattle, and Memphis works the unimproved cattle and the mined bonus. This way, Thebes and Heliopolis get speedy growth; and Memphis will complete the granary just before it grows (I'll switch it off the cattle next turn to do that) so that it will grow, and get the granary's +10 food on the pop 2-pop 3 growth, just after the granary finishes.

Science is at 100% and I'll get the Wheel in 2 turns.

This is all for now, but I intend to continue this later. I'll continue this level of detail for how I use the +5 pumps, just in case that hasn't been shown enough around here.

[GodKing]

Move worker south, to road and mine while exploring prior to founding the city.
Found the city in the start location. Nothing special on this start.
First build is a warrior for scouting. He moves towards the mountain to the east, then the one to the north as we appear to be in the southern hemisphere. Want to get to find the jungle areas to get an idea if I am on continents, islands, or pangia.
First research is pottery, at 90% (so I don’t have to worry about lowering it later).
Cultural expansion finds me the two cows. Looks like I have city site #2.
3rd warrior goes south to scout out the 2nd city site, and finds the 3rd cow. Nice. I adjust my city placement to add it in. Now I have a city pump that can do both settlers and workers, but only 1 so far. It will also be nice for production purposes later on. I prefer wheat on flood plains… but who is going to be that picky….
My northern scout finds some flood plains, but about 15 tiles to the north…. Dang, far away. The same turn I pop a goodie hut to the SE, and get barbs. Nice.
3000 bc, meet the Iroquois up by my floodplains. They don’t want to trade for either of my techs, not do they want to trade their techs. SOB’s. Looks like I have found my first target.
2nd research is the wheel, as with all these flat lands, fast movement will be a must.
I experiment, and use one pop to rush a granary in my first city. I never did that before, but the timing for it was perfect.
As the Iroquois are still unwilling to trade with me on the second turn of contact, I decide to declare war and steal their two workers with my single 3hp warrior. I send the slaves marching towards home (hoping no barbs are around) and keep the warrior around to pillage whatever they have. I don’t intend on battling them, just hurting them to weaken them for a real invasion later.
The SOB’s have incense next to their cap, along with floodplains. They also pop rushed a spear. Lucky them. I will just pillage and run. Dang, before I can do anything, they rush me with two warriors, and kill me off quick. Now, it is just a race to see if I can make peace with them before I have to actually do anything.
After killing off one of his warriors with my remaining scout… Hiawatha is all happy to make peace. He still won’t trade me anything, but hey, I traded 1 warrior for 2 slaves… I am happy.
I meet Greece, who trades me BW and 35 gold for Masonry and CB. Not a good deal, but acceptable. The gold will be nice so I can run a deficit for a bit. Wish I had a lux around here.
I find a nice cluster of spices to my NW, and decide to send city #2 that way to colonize it asap. Ya, it is far and away, but I want the lux before anybody else steals it. I might decide differently if I find horses.
WOW, I am going with a real loose city spacing. Have met the babs and English. Both are stingy bastards. Got 2 iron, and 1 horse locked in. Very weak army – going to focus on that for a bit.
Try the philo gambit, miss it by 1 turn. Darn. Go for lit next, to get the GL. Best way to catch up in tech I think.
After finishing out REX, I did a bunch of tech whoring. Got republic, switched governments, and made agreements with the Greek and Iroquois for ROP, so I sent a couple of chariots to scout out their lands. The babs are being the biggest jerks, so I have decided that they will make fine examples, particularly as the Iroc don’t have horses, and thus are not a real threat.
The war with the Babs triggered my GA, just prior to entering the middle ages. Made peace with them after 13 turns. Took about ½ of their empire. The turn I ended the war, I built the Great Library. Hopefully, it will boost me up to education (or wherever the AI is in the research path). I saved the game here. This is proving to be a fun one.

[Tarquinius]

Wow Kloreep, nice detailed explanation of your strategy.
My question is: how big will your pump cities be? Because they will need to produce 30 shields in four turns. And as they are not capitals I guess they will need to be size 5?

And what will Thebes do, military build up? Or a wonder?

[Kloreep]

Originally posted by Tarquinius
Wow Kloreep, nice detailed explanation of your strategy.
My question is: how big will your pump cities be? Because they will need to produce 30 shields in four turns. And as they are not capitals I guess they will need to be size 5?

I think starting at 4, and going to 5 while buliding a settler, should be enough. 6-8(6+2 from growth)-7-9(7+2 from growth) is enough to complete a settler. With 1 shield from the city tile, you can get 6 spt at size 4. I will have to see how much corruption gets in the way, though. At least this is a large map; that will help.

Memphis will be tough because it can't get 2 shields from growth unless there's a vacant mined bonus grass, something I don't see happening. But I desperately need some workers anyway, so I'll probably have it doing 2-turn workers for a little while till I can figure something out. (Temple and a mined hill, perhaps, though that's expensive.) I could also do 5-turn settlers there to supplement the 4-turn, intentionally stunting its growth on the 5-6 journey and make it three turns, and giving it less shields to make the settler build 5 turns total. Not perfect, but certainly a heck of a lot better than just 1 4-turn settler pump; and finding the shields for a 5-turn settler is much much easier than finding them for a 4-turn.

Originally posted by Tarquinius
And what will Thebes do, military build up? Or a wonder?

Military. No time for a wonder even if I thought I could get one in the ancient age; while the AI may not have the intelligence to attack like a human would in this situation, there are always barbarians to worry about. I don't even have enough military for my three current cities, let alone the settlers I want to be spewing out eventually.

I'll think about wonders once the MA, with stuff like Leo's and Bach's, is closer.

[Modo44]

A short DAR, with a screenie.

4000 BC

• Settle Thebes on the spot, start building a Warrior.
• Worker moves 3 to start a Mine.
• Start researching Pottery at 100%.
• Both Bonus Grasslands near the River will be Mined and Roaded. After that the Game Forest will get Chopped to speed up a build (most certainly a Granary).

3750 BC

• Warrior ready in Thebes, another one started. This is the first scout - going to explore north. We're south - near the pole, so contacts will be to the north.

3650 BC

• Road done, Worker moves 1 (to Thebes 2) to start a Mine. Saving the Chop of the Game Forest for the Granary.

3550 BC

• Second Warrior ready, Thebes starts another one. This guy will stay on MP duty.

3400 BC

• Third Warrior ready - this one will scout our home (south). Thebes starts Barracks as a prebuild for the Granary.
• Warrior scouting to the north finds the third hut. Too bad we're not Expansionistic.

3350 BC

• AHA! Meeting with a Warrior of the Iroquis. They give us Alphabet, Pottery (was 3 turns from completion), and 10 Gold for Ceremonial Burial, and Masonry.
• Thebes switched to Granary.
• Pop barbarians from the hut near the Iroquis Warrior. I just had to try one. It was far from the capital, I swear.
• Warrior going south spots a 3rd Cows south of Thebes.
• Start Writing at 10%, 50 turns. Yes, a Philosphy beeline.

3300 BC

• Our Warrior killed two barbs, and was promoted to Veteran. Needs to rest for a turn. One barb left.
• Iroquis Warrior went north! Very lucky start indeed.
• Our fourth Warrior goes to Gold Mountain, to see what riches are beyond it. Planning to explore east after that.
• Writing can be sped up a notch by moving the science slider to 100%, and going with -1gpt for a while. So I do that.

3200 BC

• Iroquis Warrior almost gets killed by a barb. Almost. Oh well, better luck next time.
• Scouting to the south, we find we're on a peninsula. What a surprise.

3050 BC

• Forest Chopped, Granary has a nice wooden roof now. Worker starts Irrigating the place.
• Scouting to the east shows thet the peninsula is pretty slim - coast reached. This Warrior will turn north now.
• The Iroquis acquired Bronze Working somewhere. Probably a meeting of tribes occured to them.

2950 BC

• MM Thebes to grow just after the Granary is ready.
• Scouting to the north brings good news again. We meet the Babylonians. Apparently they don't know the Iroquis yet (suckers ). We give Masonry, Alphabet, 1gpt, 15gp. They give Warrior Code, The Wheel.
• The Iroquis get Warrior Code for Bronze Working. Tech parity reached.
• But, we had to reduce science spending, delaying Writing by 3 turns. Oh well.
• The northern Warrior will go west now. He'll turn north again after he finds a coast, or another AI.
• The Worker will bring Irrigation to the Cows, by using a Grassland tile.
• Our other Warrior has found loads of Whales just east of Thebes. This is the third time my city-planning department got headaches. Too many good choices, I tell ya. Nice job creating the riddles, mistah Krill.

2590 BC

• Some great Grassland sea, with Wheat and Horses found to the north-east. It might be a little to close to the Iroquis. We'll see...
• Settler done. Now, since I don't use temporary cities, I'll have to twist things a bit. I want a Settler-pump, but I won't get two with this aproach. Settler goes to Thebes 3322. The better way (allowing 2 Settler-pumps, and bringing Irrigation to the Cows) was a city at Thebes 32. Oh well, I don't like camps, so sue me.
• The exploring Warrior (now north-west from home) finds something that might be a coast.

2510 BC

• We meet the Greeks. They appear to be somewhere north of the Iroquis. And they have a big technological lag.
• Memphis settled 3322 from Thebes. With Irrigation on the first Cow nearly done, the city will make a Worker, and then a Granary.

2390 BC

• Finally, the Greeks have something for Sale. For Masonry and Ceremonial Burial, they give two Slaves and 10 Gold. (4 civs have met already, so tech cost has fallen dramatically - usually I'd expect one tech to get me the Workers).
• One Slave starts a Road north. The faster we start settling there, the better.
• The second one prepares a Chop for the Granary in Memphis.

2190 BC

• Lost one of 3 scouting Warriors to a wandering barbarian. One Warrior scouting NW from home is almost done discovering the coastline, that will belong to the Babylonians.
• Settle Heliopolis at Memphis 441. Queue: Warrior (MP), Curragh, Temple (get the Whales), Granary.
• Next Settler, once completed, will go to Thebes 88.

And the screenie. Red dots are planned cities. No longer plans made, because I don't know a) the eastern shoreline b) how the Iroquis' expansion will go.

[Dominae]

Below is the turn-by-turn of what I would have done. Sorry for the lack of screenshot, I will try to post one later on sometime.

At the end of 40 turns, I am 7 turns away from Alphabet, mainly because of my decision to build a Barracks in the capital. I probably would not have done this on Demigod in order to stay ahead of the tech pace. On Emperor, however, an early attack (Archer or War Chariot) is still an option, and coming from behind in tech still a possibility.

Cities: 2
Pop: 9
Workers: 3
Settlers: 0 (one next turn)
Warriors: 1

Barracks: 1
Granaries: 2

Mines: 4
Irrigation: 3
Roads: 8

4000BC: Worker moves S
	Settler found Thebes
	Thebes begins Pyramids
	Research Pottery 
	Science 100%
3950BC:	Worker begins Road
3850BC:	Worker completes Road, begins Mine
3650BC:	Worker completes Mine, moves NE
3600BC: Worker begins Mine
3500BC:	Thebes 2, borders expand
	Luxuries 10%
3400BC:	Worker completes Mine, begins Road
3300BC:	Worker completes Road, moves SE
3250BC:	Worker begins chop Forest
	Science 70%
3200BC:	Discover Pottery
	Thebes switches to Granary
	Research Alphabet
	Science 90%
3150BC:	Thebes completes Granary, begins Settler
	EOT Worker completes Chop Forest
3100BC:	Worker begins Road
3050BC:	Thebes 3
	Luxuries 80%
3000BC:	Worker completes Road, begins Irrigation
2950BC:	Thebes completes Settler, begins Worker
	Thebes 1
	Settler moves S
	Science 100%
2900BC:	Settler moves S
	EOT Worker completes Irrigation
2850BC:	Thebes 2
	Settler founds Memphis
	Memphis begins Granary
	Worker moves SW
	Luxuries 10%
2800BC:	Thebes completes Worker2, begins Barracks
	Thebes 1
	Worker1 begins Chop Forest
	Worker2 moves SE-SE-S along Roads
	Science 100%
2750BC:	Worker2 begins Road
2710BC:	Thebes 2
	Luxuries 10%
	EOT Worker1 completes Chop Forest
2670BC:	Worker1 begins Irrigation
	Worker2 completes Road, moves SW
2630BC:	Worker2 begins Road
	Science 80%
2590BC:	Thebes 3
	Luxuries 30%
	Science 60%
2550BC:	Memphis 2
	Worker1 completes Irrigation, moves W
	Worker2 completes Road, begins Irrigation
	Luxuries 20%
	Science 70%
2510BC:	Worker1 begins Road
2470BC:	Thebes 4
	Luxuries 30%
	Science 60%
	EOT Worker2 completes Irrigation
2430BC:	Thebes completes Barracks, begins Worker
	Worker1 completes Road, moves SE-E along Roads, begins Mine
	Worker2 joins Worker1, begins Mine
2350BC:	Thebes 5
	Memphis 3
	Thebes completes Warrior, begins Worker
	Worker1 and Worker2 complete Mine, move W-NW along Roads, begin Mine
	Warrior moves SE-SE-S along Roads
	Luxuries 50%
	Science 40%
2310BC:	Warrior moves S, attacks and defeats Barb
	Luxuries 40%
	Science 40%
2270BC:	Thebes completes Worker3, begins Warrior
	Thebes 4
	Worker1 and Worker2 complete Mine
	Worker1 moves NW
	Worker2 moves S
	Worker3 moves N
	Warrior moves N
	Luxuries 40%
	Science 40%
2230BC:	Thebes 5
	Memphis completes Granary, begins Settler
	Worker1 begins Road
	Worker2 begins Road
	Worker3 begins Mine
	Warrior moves along Roads into Thebes
	Luxuries 40%
	Science 30%
2190BC:	Luxuries 40%
	Science 30%
2150BC:	Memphis 4
	Worker1 completes Road, begins Mine
	Worker2 completes Road, joins Worker1, begins Mine
	Luxuries 50%
	Science 40%

[Dave_Shack]

Originally posted by Krill
OK, while everyone here has said that what they build depends upon the situation, alot can still change...

Here is a save and the opening pic. I (and I suspect, Commy as well...) would like people to play out the start and post a DAR, of the first 40 turns atleast. The settings are middle of the road, but raging barbs, and emperor (C3C 1.22)

Stupid non-apolytonian question -- what's a DAR?

Didn't expect different civ sites to have different vocabularies...

[Donegeal]

During Action Report (or review)

[vmxa1]

We use to use AAR or after action reports in the AU (apolyton University) for games. They switched from the DAR.

[Commy]

wow...what's up with the graphics? Is that a mod?

[Kloreep]

Yep.

I can't speak for Modo, but I'm using Snoopy's terrain along with some of Niessuh's graphics added in.

[Theseus]

Modo, it just occurred to me: 4- and 5-tile spacing? And what's up with not settling northwards?

[Dominae]

Not to put words in Modo's mouth, but: I believe Memphis was placed where it is in order to get a second pump going, and Heliopolis founded third in order to access that second Cattle. He's only got three cities, but I'm sure the next few would be around Rivers to the North.

Edit: That said, I placed Memphis two tiles South of Thebes.