Newbie problems with civ....

[Godstar]

Having problems learning civ, and here are my problems.

Seems like I'm perpetually in debt. I try to build buildings in my cities, but in doing so, it seems to ramp up my maintenance costs so much that I simply end up going into debt trying.

I cannot upgrade my units. I've tried moving them in and out of my city, hitting the upgrade button, but nothing. Doesn't seem to work. I'm not sure if this is because I've always been in debt.

Stacks don't seem to move all the units. I hit the stack button, and when I attempt to move the stack, only 1 seems to move and attack instead of all of them.

AI seems to like "gang banging". It seems that if I attack 1 computer, or 1 computer declares war, they all declare war on me. It seems the only way I can prevent this is by meeting their rediculous trade demands, like giving them basically my high tech for nothing (maps or some crap like that). Not sure how to prevent this. I'd like to have a more diplomatic approach to dealing with neighbors but I can't seem to do anything with diplomacy (doesn't seem to work or I can't get anything to do with another nation going (like treaties, co-ops, trade agreements and stuff like that).

If someone can offer advice on making money, buildings and simple, general strategies you can use at beginning, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks for your time!

[Dominae]

Re: Newbie problems with civ....

Originally posted by Godstar
Seems like I'm perpetually in debt. I try to build buildings in my cities, but in doing so, it seems to ramp up my maintenance costs so much that I simply end up going into debt trying.

Put a Road on every tile your cities are working, in addition to the standard Mine or Irrigation. Roads increase the Commerce output of a tile by 1. Thus if each laborer is working a roaded tile, the Commerce output of each of your cities will at least be equal to its population.

I cannot upgrade my units. I've tried moving them in and out of my city, hitting the upgrade button, but nothing. Doesn't seem to work. I'm not sure if this is because I've always been in debt.

Upgrading units costs Gold. If your treasury is low, you will not be able to upgrade. A unit also needs to be in a city with a Barracks to upgrade. If only one or neither of these conditions is met, the upgrade button (a lightning bolt) will not appear on the screen.

Stacks don't seem to move all the units. I hit the stack button, and when I attempt to move the stack, only 1 seems to move and attack instead of all of them.

You can only move a stack, not attack with it; units always attack seperately (unless you have an Army but that's a different story).

AI seems to like "gang banging". It seems that if I attack 1 computer, or 1 computer declares war, they all declare war on me. It seems the only way I can prevent this is by meeting their rediculous trade demands, like giving them basically my high tech for nothing (maps or some crap like that). Not sure how to prevent this. I'd like to have a more diplomatic approach to dealing with neighbors but I can't seem to do anything with diplomacy (doesn't seem to work or I can't get anything to do with another nation going (like treaties, co-ops, trade agreements and stuff like that).

There are two ways of making sure the AI does not abuse you diplomatically: be strong economically, or be strong militarily. The latter is simplest: just make sure you have enough military units so that the AI does not think you're a pushover, and it will declare war on you much less frequently. You know that you're not weak compared to the AIs because the military advisor (the F3 screen) tells you so. Being strong economically comes with practice. Basically if you've got a lot of techs, Gold, Luxuries, etc. you can manipulate the AIs into doing what you want, instead of the other way around. Again, you need to play a lot to get good at this.

If someone can offer advice on making money, buildings and simple, general strategies you can use at beginning, I'd appreciate it.

Anything else you need to know, just ask.

[Barinthus]

Also it helps to read the topped thread in this section. A lot of good information there.

[Theseus]

I'll re-iterate Barinthus' suggestion... read the Must Reads, starting at the top!!

Also, post some game saves and hopefully screenshots; typically people do this for the start (4000BC), 1000BC, and 10BC or AD. We like helping people out around here, and some more experienced players will surely jump in with some suggestions. Don;t worry about what might be 'wrong' with what you are doing... the attitude here is very positive and encouraging.

[Solomwi]

Originally posted by Theseus
... the attitude here is very positive and encouraging.

Until you start showing signs of slipping into the builderer ($1 to UnO) category. Then we get vicious and force you back onto the path of righteousness and good.

[Theseus]

Let's work on Godstar's opeing, though, before we demonstrate the power of the Dark Side.

[Godstar]

Well I finally finished the game, took me a couple days and here is what happened. Note that I had to restart again, due to some problems I got locked into with a previous game (I had no resources in my area and was getting smoked by stronger units).

This game I:

-- Played Germans (don't know why, I just picked one).
--I figured out how to upgrade.
-- I tried scouting out as far as I could and building as close to the neighbors civs as I could, expanding as many cities as possible every turn (some cities grew faster than others and made for good pumps for new cities).
--Was able to maintain positive cash in treasury the entire game.
--Made it to the near end of the Modern Age, but didn't get all the upgrades.
--Was at 70 percent tech most the time.
-- I had a good number of cities, but got trapped between two semi-large cultures (Russians and French)and was able to stunt one early one that was a close neighbor (English).
-- Was able to use diplomacy, plant spies, plant embassy, etc., though I did not try to techsteal at that point.
-- I had as equal, or better armies than who I was fighting, until the end when I was getting beaten down due to lack of steal and lack of anyone who would trade it.

Problems I had:
Massive waves of Knights. Seemed that even though I would have calvary, or even for that matter infantry/rifleman, the knights would just roll in by droves, and take out cities with stacks of infantry (2), and calvary (4-5) that I had pulled back after they invaded. It really seemed that these early units were capable of hurting/killing off many stronger units, or units I would have thought were stronger. The Russians seemed to employ this moreso than the others did.

I wasn't able to tech as fast as I would have liked, and had a few problems with unhappiness in my cities. It seemed that whenever I would go into war, things would get nasty, people would start rioting, and my cities would get trashed by my own people. Either that or they would starve due to people not working, and being turned to entertainers. This was almost a perpetual problem, since almost always, one of my neighbors was : invading me, smack talking (give me x or die), intruding on my lands, or I was declaring war on them simply because I didn't want them growing into me.

The tech problem got me in the end since the Russians had happened to get lucky and had every resource, which allowed them to build tanks, which ended up crushing me in the end. I also noticed that calvary/knights were still usefull for land tile harassmant, even in the late stages. Masses of these roaming over the lands destroying improvements and then amassing for assaults on cities was nearly godly and unstoppable. Really not sure how to defend against that strategy vs. mass horseman rushes.


Needless to say I lost due to the time limit (didn't even know I had one). It was one of my best games, but at least I didn't end up as Bismark the pathetic, and was simply, Bismark the Weak or Sucky (whatever the second/third to the last title was).

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by Godstar
"Well I finally finished the game, took me a couple days and here is what happened. Note that I had to restart again, due to some problems I got locked into with a previous game (I had no resources in my area and was getting smoked by stronger units).

This game I:

-- Played Germans (don't know why, I just picked one).
--I figured out how to upgrade.
-- I tried scouting out as far as I could and building as close to the neighbors civs as I could, expanding as many cities as possible every turn (some cities grew faster than others and made for good pumps for new cities).
--Was able to maintain positive cash in treasury the entire game.
--Made it to the near end of the Modern Age, but didn't get all the upgrades.
--Was at 70 percent tech most the time.
-- I had a good number of cities, but got trapped between two semi-large cultures (Russians and French)and was able to stunt one early one that was a close neighbor (English).
-- Was able to use diplomacy, plant spies, plant embassy, etc., though I did not try to techsteal at that point.
-- I had as equal, or better armies than who I was fighting, until the end when I was getting beaten down due to lack of steal and lack of anyone who would trade it."

That is nice start, well done.

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by Godstar
"Problems I had:
Massive waves of Knights. Seemed that even though I would have calvary, or even for that matter infantry/rifleman, the knights would just roll in by droves, and take out cities with stacks of infantry (2), and calvary (4-5) that I had pulled back after they invaded. It really seemed that these early units were capable of hurting/killing off many stronger units, or units I would have thought were stronger. The Russians seemed to employ this moreso than the others did."

You don't say what massive means exactly, but surely 2 infantry is not enough to feel safe. In a map where you share the land with a developed civ, you should have bombardment units to back up the troops.

In frontline cities, you want as many defenders as it takes to fend off the numbers and type of invaders you expect. This can be hard to know, but you should have some clues.

Have mobile units in range to come to the aid (knights/calv) of the city. If you know you are going to have civs nearby, think about spacing cities closer together, so they can support each other.

What was the city size? If less than 7, build a wall or try to grow it. Place cities with defense in mind if you share the land. This may mean hills or next to a river, leaving forrest in the path of invaders.

Slowing them down and letting you ping them with cats/cannon or what ever you have. Get archer/longbow or other bombardment units in the city.

After that, you do not know what the RNG will do. I think T posted a mention of the unbreakable spearmen, that stopped many units. Things sometimes get ugly.

[JimiD]

getting to the modern era before getting beat is better going than my first games, and I thought i knew what i was doing, having played civ 2.


turns out i had to forget all about that and start again.

And youve found the right place, Ive learnt all I know about civ3 here, including the bit above.

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by Godstar

I wasn't able to tech as fast as I would have liked, and had a few problems with unhappiness in my cities. It seemed that whenever I would go into war, things would get nasty, people would start rioting, and my cities would get trashed by my own people. Either that or they would starve due to people not working, and being turned to entertainers. This was almost a perpetual problem, since almost always, one of my neighbors was : invading me, smack talking (give me x or die), intruding on my lands, or I was declaring war on them simply because I didn't want them growing into me.

The tech problem got me in the end since the Russians had happened to get lucky and had every resource, which allowed them to build tanks, which ended up crushing me in the end. I also noticed that calvary/knights were still usefull for land tile harassmant, even in the late stages. Masses of these roaming over the lands destroying improvements and then amassing for assaults on cities was nearly godly and unstoppable. Really not sure how to defend against that strategy vs. mass horseman rushes.


Needless to say I lost due to the time limit (didn't even know I had one). It was one of my best games, but at least I didn't end up as Bismark the pathetic, and was simply, Bismark the Weak or Sucky (whatever the second/third to the last title was).

Last one first, as you now know the game end at 2050, but you can play on, if you want.

Research is a function of empire strength and the government you are in at the time.

So if in Monarchy or Despotism you will do less well as compared to Republic.

After that you need to get you cities growing and citizens working prime tiles, that are improved with roads and mines.

Not much can be done about poor terrain or lack of resources, other than get them from someone else anyway you can.

Then you maybe able to research a tech that is not being researched by the AI and trade it for tech or cash or goods.

At all times you must ensure that your citizen are not unhappy. This means no city has more unhappy citizens, than happy ones. They must be at least equal, better if more happy than unhappy.

So check it at the end of the turn, if you are not sure. After a time you get to know when a city grows or some event affected happiness. (dropped out of war boost for instance)

Use the lux slider to help with war weariness. In order to prevent or slow down threat and demands form the AI, you need to be stronger than them.

Check you F3 advisor to see how you stand and if he says we are weak, you must crank out troops or face the consequences.

As to the russians, you have to trim them back at some point. This is not impossible, but requires you make troops and lots of them.

[Godstar]

"You don't say what massive means exactly, but surely 2 infantry is not enough to feel safe. In a map where you share the land with a developed civ, you should have bombardment units to back up the troops.
"

Well this is what I mean. I would have like stacks of 4-6 troops, sometimes more on each of my frontline cities (thinking this was plenty).

Woah, what's that? 3 stacks of like 8 knights (not sure of the #'s actually, but was a big stack) roll in from the darkness. I retreat all troops onto cities and move reserves from back cities up.
One after the other the stacks pick off units, pull back hurt ones, and then send more in to back the orginal hurt units up. I try to build more units but it's like that many stacks all at once was just too brutal a thing to stop. My cities evenually caved in and were destroyed, causing me to restart again. The only way I was able to stop it was by moving as many calvary out onto the city and hope they wouldn't be able to retreat, or my calvary on my city would be able to kill their wounded.


Some of my non-automated workers get captured. Seems they can see them coming if automated, something I can't do otherwise playing them manually.

[Godstar]

Use the lux slider to help with war weariness. In order to prevent or slow down threat and demands form the AI, you need to be stronger than them.

Ok what is the lux slider? What menu wsa that on? I didn't mess with any luxuries, and didnt' really know what they were for.

[gunkulator]

Luxury slider determines what % of commerce is used to generate luxuries, which will make your people happy.

Lux slider is on the F1 display near the top. It is right below the science slider.

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by Godstar
Use the lux slider to help with war weariness. In order to prevent or slow down threat and demands form the AI, you need to be stronger than them.

Ok what is the lux slider? What menu wsa that on? I didn't mess with any luxuries, and didnt' really know what they were for.

See on the F1 screen top right, there are two sliders. One is research and the one with the smiley face is the lux slider.

You can use it to change some citizen to contented.