Your SID level experiences

[ErikM]

Iroquois on the March - part VIII

420AD
Leader (#17) --> army.
SpiceCity founded.
Ratae Coritanorum, Segusio captured.

440AD
Banking, research Navigation (need to ship these spices home)
Scientific GL!!! Somebody named Guyasuta. Now, what do I do with him? I will complete Adam Smith in time with a prebuild and there are no wonders currently available. Using SGL on Pentagon seems like a waste. So I'll probably use him on Magellan's although I don't really need it. But at least Celts won't have it.
Eboranum, Augustodorum captured.

450AD
Celts have Gunpowder. Damn! Of course they have saltpeter.
Founded another helper city.
Brought two explorers to pillage Celtic resources.

460AD
Renewed my alliance with Mongols.
Rest/consolidate/quell resistance. Need to investigate map a bit before proceeding further.
Sent my Crusaders Army to pillage Iron and Ivory around Entremont.
Here's my current position:

[ErikM]

[That's all for now]

[Drachen]

I didn’t want to interrupt the narrative flow of the great posts over at Mountain Sages Sid thread so I thought I’d post a preliminary observation here. It seems possible that C3C 1.22 has changed the AI research priorities and nerfed the GL Gambit on standard maps with default settings and random opponents. In the last four or five games I’ve started I’ve found that Alphabet and Writing are discovered much earlier than was usual in 1.15b and that the AI Great Library build starts much earlier as well. The sample size is small but the results are consistent and in these few games the AI starts the GL so early that it becomes much less likely that we can get to literature in time to build it ourselves. I also noted in one game on a large map that the GL was obtainable but that I almost lost the race for it. That’s unusual for large maps and while it could be an aberration it could also be the result of changed AI research priorities. If any of you are observing this trend perhaps you could post your findings so that we can increase the sample size and get a clearer idea if AI research changes have actually occurred.

[vmxa1]

That is not good news. You should open a new thread to pose this question to get more feedback.

[Mountain Sage]

In my tries the AI researches Alphabet, Writing and Philosphy at top speed (and the other techs probably also). If you don't research Philosophy at 100% with all the happiness-related problems etc.), you'll never make it to get Literature for free and start the GLibrary.
In one of my earliest trials, I moved the Settler the first turn at it costed me Philosphy (I replayed it without the moving).

[Drachen]

Originally posted by Mountain Sage
In my tries the AI researches Alphabet, Writing and Philosphy at top speed (and the other techs probably also). If you don't research Philosophy at 100% with all the happiness-related problems etc.), you'll never make it to get Literature for free and start the GLibrary.
In one of my earliest trials, I moved the Settler the first turn at it costed me Philosphy (I replayed it without the moving).

So your experience suggests that 1.22 has shifted research priorities?

[Paddy]

Erik, you have some great stuff there

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by Mountain Sage
In my tries the AI researches Alphabet, Writing and Philosphy at top speed (and the other techs probably also). If you don't research Philosophy at 100% with all the happiness-related problems etc.), you'll never make it to get Literature for free and start the GLibrary.
In one of my earliest trials, I moved the Settler the first turn at it costed me Philosphy (I replayed it without the moving).

This was not the case in 1.15, but may now be the norm. It was stated by some on CFC that you could get the beeline with just an all out on Philosophy.

This is not true on many 1.22 maps. I have even missed it with full out research on Writing and Phil. I have now found it could require all out from the start.

Lots of factors such as the growth and workers, but if I rex very hard and kick out units, it is hard to keep up any research. I often see the need for troops to stop barbs and that is a drag on research. I can't get by with just a few MP's.

I am trying some test on huge maps to see how it goes and so far it is the same, but worse. I failed to be first to Phil so far and will try all on the start.

[Paddy]

Originally posted by vmxa1


This was not the case in 1.15, but may now be the norm. It was stated by some on CFC that you could get the beeline with just an all out on Philosophy.

This is not true on many 1.22 maps. I have even missed it with full out research on Writing and Phil. I have now found it could require all out from the start.

Lots of factors such as the growth and workers, but if I rex very hard and kick out units, it is hard to keep up any research. I often see the need for troops to stop barbs and that is a drag on research. I can't get by with just a few MP's.

I am trying some test on huge maps to see how it goes and so far it is the same, but worse. I failed to be first to Phil so far and will try all on the start.

they do like to present challenges to us

[vmxa1]

I can now say I have made it first to Phil on a huge map 1300BC and built the GL on 875BC. I used the granary to get 5 turn start and added in 5 workers to get to size 12.

I have made no contacts and I am last in tech. I had to slow my expansion a tad, but now can blast out.

[Mountain Sage]

Originally posted by Drachen


So your experience suggests that 1.22 has shifted research priorities?

Well, that is my experience after 2 game starts and 4-5 trials. I don't know if its enough for statistical purposes.

But if it's true, it means that if your civ has not Alphabet as a start tech, you can forget about the GLibrary.

[Drachen]

Originally posted by Mountain Sage


Well, that is my experience after 2 game starts and 4-5 trials. I don't know if its enough for statistical purposes.

But if it's true, it means that if your civ has not Alphabet as a start tech, you can forget about the GLibrary.

It also means your going to miss the GLib a lot more often than before even if you start w/Alphabet on standard maps.

[vmxa1]

It sure seems so, but I really don't know what change caused it.

[Mountain Sage]

Originally posted by Drachen

It also means your going to miss the GLib a lot more often than before even if you start w/Alphabet on standard maps.

Maybe not, you can probably get it (almost) every time, but you need to:

1. Research Writing asap (50 turns), then Philosophy at 100%.
2. Build your 2nd city asap.
3. Build there a granary.
4. Build there a temple.
5. Pump it to size 8 min.
6. Work the tiles around it (needs some workers).
7. Palace pre-built.
8. Some military MP.
9. Get Pottery and Masonry from another civ. On archipelago, this means the first units will be curraghs.
10. Spare lots of gold to run a deficit for about 30 turns + 20-30% lux.
Did I forget something?
Of course, no rexxing before size 8... and don't move your settler on the 1st turn...

That makes a lot for a wonder

[Drachen]

Mountain Sage;
That’s roughly the recipe I’d use to cook up the Great Library (GL) and you just might get it although at great expense to your Rex. I haven’t tried an all out GL rush through philosophy on a standard 1.22 with Seafaring AIs but in my opening post I presented an example of an AI starting the GL in 1400BC which is early enough that winning the race may not be assured even with your best efforts. I think the earliest I’ve built the GL is about 875BC but I’m pretty sure that can be improved upon. What’s the earliest you’ve been able to build it?