"Skip First Turn" Not So Great?

[justjake73]

I played one turn as the US, and watched as Yamamoto attacked Midway instead of Pearl Harbor.

Hmmmmm.....

I restarted as the Japanese, and found that reproducing Pearl Harbor in Civ is almost impossible. Bombers destroy buildings before anything else, leaving the Pacific Fleet undamaged and ready to sink your attack fleet!

[kring]

Originally posted by justjake73
I played one turn as the US, and watched as Yamamoto attacked Midway instead of Pearl Harbor.

Hmmmmm.....

I restarted as the Japanese, and found that reproducing Pearl Harbor in Civ is almost impossible. Bombers destroy buildings before anything else, leaving the Pacific Fleet undamaged and ready to sink your attack fleet!

You can move your fleet in close enough to bombard Pearl Harbor, and if you coordinate the attack correctly, wipe out a lot of the US fleet. Staying for a second or third turn can work wonders as well.

[Mad Bomber]

Just build ground troops with the Americans?

Why?????

They start off with ONE stinking transport.

The game is ONLY 50 turns long

Sure production could be increased but it SHOULD be at a much higher level even if the game started in 1940.

They can't even buid marines at the start even though the marine corps has been around only since 1777! and have conducted Amphibious Assaults as early as 1814.

Is it possible to win? well may be it is (It doesn't seem like it to me but I respect the players who claim to have done so) but my question is why should I even try? The scenerio is just too dissatisfying for me to play more han 5 turns.

Krings tactic's of bombarding Pearl with the Japanese surface fleet is but one of many examples, I could list 20 or 30 problems with this scenerio, but I'll leave it be.

[Dis]

First of all the american production was very poor in 1941. In real life it did take a long time to get going. Though by the end they were turning out like insane numbers of ships. I can't remember the exact numbers. But I think they were producing destoryers in a matter of days!!

That one transport can carry 4 units. These four units were enough to take my first VP location- it was a Japanese held island south/SE of midway I believe- supported by naval bombardment of course.

I agree about the marines. The U.S. should start with some- and start with the amphibious warfare tech as well.

50 turns doesn't seem like a long time, but you don't need that many VP locations. Taking all the japanese islands will easily be enough. You can build a transport in 1 or 2 turns in Portland- this is on Regent level and after some terrain improvements. I haven't played the game above emporer level, but other people have, and have won.

[Dis]

The other thread reminded me. Paratroopers.

These come in handy in the WW2 pacific scenario. Yeah sure my tanks and marines did all the dirty work (actually my air power and naval power did much of the dirty work). But paratroopers do help in the late stages of this scenario in getting troops quickly accross the water when transports won't have enough time to get anywhere before the game ends.

[Senator]

I paid hard cash to build an airport in manilla asap. then i started to create loads of infantry (combat engineers, gi's) in the mainland, then i would airlift em all to manilla and launch transports from there. I had to base a lot of fighter protection in manilla too, but it became the decisive factor in the campaign, the japs just kept on trying to hit me with all they got in manilla and seemed to forget everything else.

[Dis]

me too. they really wanted Manila and ignored all my island hopping I was doing.

their other attention was towards the mainland. They did have some success there- taking both singapore and Hong Kong and 1 or 2 chinese cities. But it took them too long to do that.

[planetfall]

I don't think AI wanted Manilla enough.

What I saw from AI was:
1. quick hit at Pearl and then navy rarely seen
2. heavy concentration on Mainland
3. some interest in Manilla but no heavy assults.

MacArthur got kicked out of Phillipines. It would have
been better to have Phillipines fall and extend the
game to 75 turns. Too many players, myself included,
quickly shored up Manilla and then used AirLifts.

== PF

[Mad Bomber]

The Ai's obsession with Manilla was a theme in my game as well, but lets face it is far from the only problem.

The thing that makes this scenerio so implausible; so horridly unplayable to me; is the fact that Airpower is completely irrelevent in the game. This is a theater of operation where airpower was the key decision maker from the first day of the war to the last. Its the same as if a European scenario made armor irrelevent.

For me i'll pass on the Pacific scenerio; if I want to recreate WW2 in the pacific I'll just play PTO 2 for the 1 billionth time (even with its terrible AI, its still 100 X's more satisfying than this scenerio)

[planetfall]

PTO == Pacific Theatre Operations ??

Guess I need a WW2 game, which are the best choices today?

== PF

[Dis]

I didn't find air power irrevelent. I found it very necessary.

The Ai's planes were tearing up my ships in the open sea. I couldnt' even approach their fleet with my battleships. Only after I got my carriers in position could I do anything to their fleet.

battleships are not so great in this game. I mainly used them for escorts and bombarding.

[Falconius]

Air power needs ground support (like in real life!). If you bomb a city mercilessly, but don't take it, its units heal up.

[Mad Bomber]

Originally posted by Dissident
I didn't find air power irrevelent. I found it very necessary.

The Ai's planes were tearing up my ships in the open sea. I couldnt' even approach their fleet with my battleships. Only after I got my carriers in position could I do anything to their fleet.

battleships are not so great in this game. I mainly used them for escorts and bombarding.

I found it irrlevent. let me esplain....

Tried the scenerio 3 times. (it turned out the same all three times

Turn 1: Japanese bomb Pearl ccausing little if any damage; they capture Appari, Hong Kong and Guam.

Turn 2-3: I fix the japanese fleet with a recon from Midway (OK airpower is not completly useless) . and I attack the fleet with BB's and Sub's. I do get on CVBG into the action but its screen of 2 cruisers and a destroyer does more damage. In the end I tend to get about half of their fleet and between 2-4 carriers. In manila I can usually kill off another 2-4 fleet units with the small fleet there and the sub's and artilley around there. From then on the Japanese navy is largely defeated.

Turn 4-5: Fleet heals up in Pearl the rest of the CV's start to arrive in the Hawiian theater. More action in Manilla. Lose the rest of the fleet based there. My one transport arrives in Hawaii. I realize then that I still have to research Amphibious Assault and that its April 1942......

Then the game gets really boring and tedious. I haven't built a plane, and I can't invade any targets that I need to. Portland is just finishing its CA and then I realize that SF isn't producing anythng worthwile and I have to remind myself that it doesn't have a factory.........................

Planetfall:

PTO is indeed Pacific THeater of Operations. Konami produced it for the Super Nintendo. PTO 2 was produced for the Sega Saturn. In the game the AI places too much emphasis on capturing a base and does not pay proper attention to a fleet if its present at a targeted base. Even with those glaring flaws, I still prefer it to this scenerio. It is a dated game, and it is not recommended for the casual gamer. As for any new Pacific games, I am not aware of any which is one reason that PTO has stayed on my playlist for so long.

[planetfall]

Mad Bomber,

Thanks for the update. If you find any good WWII games, please PM me.

-- PF

[Dis]

I can't see how you defeated all those units.

my battleships were green and regulars. They couldn't even take a heavy cruiseer!!

and the fleet around the philappines is completely useless as well. The best they can do is maybe- maybe take a submarine. The second time I played I retreated those ships to the south and regrouped with my main force.

I tried taking my battleships and attacking the japanese fleet near pearl harbour at about turn 3. I didn't sink any carriers, and I lost a couple of battleships. I did scare them off though, and the sad thing is they never kept their ships on the open seas after that point.