FIRAXIS: A list of EASY fixes for the next C3C patch

[Pyrkaige]

Great work compiling all of these, alexman. Here are three bugs not listed so far, with links. (As an aside, all of the "killer bugs" listed should probably have links to discussions of said bug, so the details are clear for any developers interested.)

SCENARIO-SPECIFIC
In the Rise of Rome Conquest, ivory is displayed with the silks icon. See here for the details and a fix.

OTHER BUGS (introduced in C3C)
Railroad sometimes can not be laid to recently captured cities; the game treats the city as having only a road, even if there is a railroad run to it. See here for details and a saved game. Apparently this one has been around for a while, in beta too; it certainly wasn't a problem in PTW.

Lastly, a change in the display of battles, apparently to help speed up multiplayer games, makes it very difficult to see the outcome of battles in cities, if you don't have battles animated. See here for details and a possible fix (adding a new option to display combat unit health which wouldn't be available in multiplayer games.)

[Dominae]

Originally posted by Mad Bomber
2. After the TOA (Temple of Artimis) is made obsolete, all of the temples placed by the wonder disappear and have to be built.

This was a design decision, and quite a good one, I think. If you're afraid that Artemis becomes obsolete too quickly (say, if you're playing Deity or Sid), a partial solution would be to mod it to become obsolete at Printing Press instead of Theology.

3. The SOZ (Statue of Zeus) and KT (Knights Templar) should be small wonders. SOZ should require Horses and Ivory. KT should require a Feudal government. Frequency should be chaged to 3 (optional). These are too powerful to be GW's.

I really hate that Zeus requires Ivory to build. It's a powerful Wonder that is only available to those civs (usually only one, with the new resource distributions) lucky enough to start next to Ivory. Why make the game more about luck that it currently is? Plus, I see no logic behind putting a resource requirement on this one Wonder and no others (save Manhattan's, which is okay because resources are more accessible in the late-game), other than the realism argument, which makes you wonder why they do not apply it to other Wonders as well (Gold for the Pyramids?!). I've been waiting to say that publicly since the beta.

However, I dislike the idea of making these Small Wonders. It would change the game too much if each civ could build a "soldier-replicating machine". I'm also doubtful that these Wonders are that much more powerful that any other (surely not the Pyramids, Leo's or the new Great Wall, to name a few).


Dominae

[Master Zen]

I agree with Dom on the Temple of Zeus. It is totally unfair that only a civ with ivory gets to build it.

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by Traelin


I vehemently disagree with you on this one. Lethal bombard is very, very realistic and necessary IMHO. Look at all the major conflicts the U.S. has been involved in the last 15 years. We have invested tons of R&D into air superiority, and for good reason. In literally a matter of days we are able to rip to shreds a well-fortified army. Lethal air bombard must stay in.

EDIT: Maybe a good compromise would be to disallow lethal air bombardment with standard bombers, but allow lethal bombardment for F-15s, Jet Fighters, and Stealth Fighters/Bombers.

That's EXACTLY what I had said. No lethal for bombers, lethal for all others (F-15, Stealths, Jets).

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Master Zen
I agree with Dom on the Temple of Zeus. It is totally unfair that only a civ with ivory gets to build it.

If anything it should require horses, which are much more randomly dispersed. How can you have a cavalry unit without horses? But I agree that this should be changed. Now I have to look for a good start AND ivory within a few city sites. Yes i can be that anal.

[WarpStorm]

Originally posted by Master Zen
That's EXACTLY what I had said. No lethal for bombers, lethal for all others (F-15, Stealths, Jets).

If by this you mean lethal land bombard, I agree. Ship killing should be allowed, IMHO.

[Traelin]

Originally posted by DrSpike
Maybe finger slimming exercises are the answer.

LOL

[Traelin]

Originally posted by Master Zen
That's EXACTLY what I had said. No lethal for bombers, lethal for all others (F-15, Stealths, Jets).

Oops, sorry Zen. Guess I didn't read your post closely enough.

[lockstep]

Originally posted by Dominae
I really hate that Zeus requires Ivory to build. It's a powerful Wonder that is only available to those civs (usually only one, with the new resource distributions) lucky enough to start next to Ivory. Why make the game more about luck that it currently is? ... I've been waiting to say that publicly since the beta.

(as there is no 'Exactly my sentiment' smiley)

I can't even imagine what Breakaway was thinking. I mean, luxury ressources aren't spread over the map, they are CLUMPED. Ivory may not even be on my CONTINENT. I want to play Civ, not a game of dice.

[alexman]

I agree too, but should I add this to the first post, or does it not belong in a patch?

If I were Breakaway, I would have made ivory a strategic resource with a low appearance ratio. I would have then turned one of their new bonus resources (tobaco etc) into a luxury resource. Easy to do in the editor, and the effect is a more even ivory distribution.

[Stuie]

Originally posted by alexman
If I were Breakaway, I would have made ivory a strategic resource with a low appearance ratio. I would have then turned one of their new bonus resources (tobaco etc) into a luxury resource. Easy to do in the editor, and the effect is a more even ivory distribution.

But wouldn't that make the AI trade needlessly for Ivory after ToZ is built?

[alexman]

That's true, I didn't think about that.
I'm sure they could have found another way around it.
Perhaps another use for Ivory...

[lockstep]

I like ivory as a luxury ressource. I just don't like any ressource as a prereq for a Great Wonder. (And yes, Manhattan Project should be a small wonder.) Zeus requiring ivory is simply a bad design decision, and the sooner this is fixed, the better.

EDIT: In other words, please add this to the first post, alexman.

[vmxa1]

I agree that resources should not be required for a wonder. The Manhattan is not too bad as it is so late in the game, but Zeus is an ancient wonder.

[Dominae]

Originally posted by alexman
I agree too, but should I add this to the first post, or does it not belong in a patch?

The designers seemed to prefer that the Statue of Zeus require Ivory. Perhaps if there's enough of a public outcry this will be changed, but in their eyes it's certainly not a high priority item that requires "fixing".


Dominae