Civilizations

[Panag]

Originally posted by Plotinus
Panag, no offence intended - I just think that there are a few contenders from history who might have stronger claims to inclusion than Israel. You are right to highlight longevity as a good trait though. One problem here is that the game doesn't model the conquest of one civilisation by another followed by independence (like India being conquered by Britain but subsequently becoming its own nation again - and Israel being conquered by all kinds of people before becoming an independent country in the twentieth century). After all, Israel hasn't existed continuously as a political unit since its foundation. The only major civilisation I can think of that has done so since extreme antiquity is China. There are quite a few in the same sort of position as Israel (ancient foundation, conquest by foreign invaders, modern reinstatement), such as Greece, Egypt, and, perhaps, many African nations, although they tend to share nothing with their ancient or medieval predecessors apart from their names.

Another disconnected ramble about the problems of mapping real history in CivIII turns, for which I apologise... as I say, no belittling of Israel intended...

hi ,

look your statement about being not there as a political body , ones again you are wrong , then you start to mix things , panag never highlighted any trait , .......

so , please , cut this stuff and either move it to the OT or post on topic , .....

bye

[Shogun Gunner]

I would like to see the "smaller" civs in the game...or even the civs like have lost and regained independence (India) for two reasons:

1. Scenarios
2. The enternal "What If..."

IMHO, that is what Civ is all about. What if Israel had taken the entire Fertile Crescent and expanded its empire in 2000 BC? What if China succumed to the Mongol hoards and became a province of Mongolia? Interesting!

I think I would pay for an optional expansion mod that would include 10-12 new civs, complete with leaderheads, that could be used if swapped out a la Austria in C3C (to stay under the 31 civ limit).

[Arnelos]

I think the top candidates for unincluded civs to balance out a world map would be the Mali, Ethiopia, the Songhai (and include the Zulus with those into an "African" cultural group).

Then include a Polynesian civ in the Asian group and a "Hebrew" or "Israeli" civiliation into the Middle Eastern culture group. Beyond that, perhaps Tibet, perhaps rename the current Iroquois the Souix and make an additional real Iroquois, Cherokee, or other eastern American civilization with an appropriate UU (likely an archer replacement or a scout replacement like the Inca UU).

[Fried-Psitalon]

Originally posted by panag


hi ,

and voila , proof ones more that it can be done , .......

have a nice day

I missed the part where I said the Phoenician position "couldn't be done", there, champ. I said "You may not care for their starting position" and comparatively to others growth-wise, the Phoenicians are one of the poorer civs. Yes, they get the Cedars, but they're also set right against several civs with better growth potential and effectively are set with no wall to put their back against in regards to war.

I assure you, part of the reason I got the title sitting in my signature is that I know it can be done. :P

[Brundlefly]

Personally, I prefer my Psitalon baked - not fried...

[SirOsis]

Hmm... I've heard it is even better broiled.

[Fried-Psitalon]

Drop by the ladder sometime, fellas. You wouldn't be the first to smash yourselves up on the walls. You might even stay and become a regular, too. We're always happy to have new and friendly faces around, and there's a full range of game styles (epic, quickie, conquest, team, ffa, you name it) and skills to go around.

[Xorbon]

Originally posted by Arnelos
I think the top candidates for unincluded civs to balance out a world map would be the Mali, Ethiopia, the Songhai (and include the Zulus with those into an "African" cultural group).

I don't think they should add civs to "balance out a world map". From what I understand, most people play random maps, not Earth maps. Although, getting civs from all across the globe does mean more cultural diversity, which I do suppport.

Originally posted by Arnelos
...perhaps rename the current Iroquois the Souix and make an additional real Iroquois, Cherokee, or other eastern American civilization with an appropriate UU (likely an archer replacement or a scout replacement like the Inca UU).

I agree. I don't know why thay chose the UU they did for the Iroquois. A 3/1/1 archer replacement (for instance) would've been more appropriate for them.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Alexander01
You can have the Vikings, Germans, and French all at the same time, without the "they're-all-blue-so-only-one-at-a-time" problem.

It was always astonishing to me that they chose to have the French and Germans as the same color, thus they could never be together in a game... I mean...wtf?!

I'm thoroughly impressed with Civ3's roster, but I see some omissions still, such as Assyria, the Marmeluks, the Sassanids, Mali, Poland-Lithuania, the Slavs, etc.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by panag



hi ,

put them on el mencey's world map , 362 X 362 , can be found in the apolyton directory

have a nice day

And be sure to go and make yourself a cup of coffee or perhaps a whole meal while you wait in between turns.

[Boris Godunov]

Oh, and I despise the notions of "deserving" and "undeserving" civilizations. Who the hell is anyone to deem some civilization "undeserving?" I remember the furor over the inclusion of the Iroquois by some. Their logic would dictate no Native Americans be represented at all. Why should the game exclude representing a people who by most estimates numbered 100 million in 1492?

One can make the case almost any civilization is worthy or not based on subjective criteria, after all.

[Fried-Psitalon]

I demand the inclusion of the Redneck civ!

C'mon! These guys are a huge subgroup of Americans, and I'm sure every nation has their own sub-derivative of this group as well.

With trash overflowing onto every inch of land they own, they are clearly an expansionist power, and you will never find a redneck who isn't a great believer in God and Country, so this is clearly a religious civ as well! Arabia, beware your rival!

Everyone would fear the UU known as the "Lawn Mower Brigade" with an awesome 5 attack, 5 defense, 2 movement, capable of chopping down forests and polluting land at no movement cost every turn, available with motorized transportation, buildable with grapes and wheat! (For balance issues we have removed their ability to shoot/destroy game and cow squares.)

This is a perfectly good example of a well-qualified civilizaton, and I DEMAND they be included! They are a huge subsection of multiple cultures, and their awesome contributions to folk music and daytime talkshows cannot be denied!

YEEEEEHAW!

[SirOsis]

Originally posted by Fried-Psitalon
With trash overflowing onto every inch of land they own, they are clearly an expansionist power, and you will never find a redneck who isn't a great believer in God and Country, so this is clearly a religious civ as well! Arabia, beware your rival!

Is Fried describing his playstyle?

[WhiteBandit]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


And be sure to go and make yourself a cup of coffee or perhaps a whole meal while you wait in between turns.

Cup of coffee? whoa... you must have a fast computer! On my AMD XP 2800, I can make breakfast, eat it, take a shower and shave between each turn...

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by Fried-Psitalon
I demand the inclusion of the Redneck civ!

C'mon! These guys are a huge subgroup of Americans, and I'm sure every nation has their own sub-derivative of this group as well.

With trash overflowing onto every inch of land they own, they are clearly an expansionist power, and you will never find a redneck who isn't a great believer in God and Country, so this is clearly a religious civ as well! Arabia, beware your rival!

Everyone would fear the UU known as the "Lawn Mower Brigade" with an awesome 5 attack, 5 defense, 2 movement, capable of chopping down forests and polluting land at no movement cost every turn, available with motorized transportation, buildable with grapes and wheat! (For balance issues we have removed their ability to shoot/destroy game and cow squares.)

This is a perfectly good example of a well-qualified civilizaton, and I DEMAND they be included! They are a huge subsection of multiple cultures, and their awesome contributions to folk music and daytime talkshows cannot be denied!

YEEEEEHAW!

Ah yes, and their famous leader Billy-Bob-Sue-Bubba III