Who should get these traits ?

[Jethro83]

Originally posted by sabrewolf
americans could just as well get industrious or commercial, depending on which era is represented.

Perhaps. Or Commercial, Agricultural. There are a few different possibilities for America in my mind. However, I believe that if a civ like Germany isn't industrious, America shouldn't be either, since typical German people actually have a better work ethic.

english (as i said in the post before) could also be expansionist (1/2 the world map was coloured red.... which btw should be their colour in the game, but that's not the topic here ).

True. But it wouldn't make that much sense England NOT being commercial. And since a vastly powerful navy enabled them to control that much of the world map, Seafaring seems like a more appropriate option for England.

spain could have militaristic and aswell expansionist (they grabbed most of south america and the majority of central america)

It wasn't entirely through military achievement that Spain conquered most of Central and South America. They had far superior weapons, and diseases that the native populations hadn't been exposed to. Smallpox is what killed most of the resistance to their occupation. Not their swords or arquebusiers. But then again, they did fight for generations to reclaim their lands from the Moors prior to Columbus' expedition. However, using their occupation of the Americas as an example of 'military achievement' isn't the best way of getting that point across.

And it wouldn't make much sense not making them Religious, since they did enact the Inquisition in both their homeland and their colonies for hundreds of years. Even today, most Spaniards are devoutly Catholic.

basicly, it looks like you've taken away the expansionist of all civs

If Expansionist were to get axed, I'm shedding no tears for it. Even if I do think it should stay. Agricultural and almost makes this trait a bit redundant since the main point was to get granaries quickly (so as to expand quickly). Since Agricultural features cheaper granaries, what little use for expansionist's starting tech is gone. While expansionists get scouts and better results from goody huts, its not exactly a game winner.

But I still think to be as historically accurate as you can be in this game the Americans, Russians, Zulu and Mongols still deserve the trait.

[Louis XXIV]

I don't think the Mongols were Scientific, I just ran out of room

How about:

Mil, Sci: Hittites, Germans
Mil, Agr: Zulu
Mil, Rel: Aztecs, Celts
Mil, Ind: China
Mil, Com: Rome
Mil, Sea: Vikings
Mil, Exp: Mongols
Sci, Agr: Sumer
Sci, Rel: Babylon, Mayas
Sci, Ind: Persia
Sci, Com: Korea
Sci, Sea: Greece
Sci, Exp: Ottomans
Agr, Rel: Iroquois
Agr, Ind: America
Agr, Com: Byzantine
Agr, Sea: Portugal
Agr, Exp: Russia
Rel, Ind: Egypt
Rel, Com: India
Rel, Sea: Spain
Rel, Exp: Arabs
Ind, Com: French
Ind, Sea: Carthage
Ind, Exp: Incas
Com, Sea: England
Com, Exp: Japan
Sea, Exp: Portugal

[Lord God Jinnai]

Originally posted by Spiffor

Except for yurts, specific saddles and bows, what exactly did the Mongols invent ?
I think the Mongols are the archetype of the Militaristic Expansionist civ, being Nomadic and hellbent to conquest

Actually there archtype Expansionist/Agricultural...

But Japan...why Commerical? Its only within the last 50 years they've been commerically motivated....not really a time period you should draw on for giving an overarching drive....they were'nt expansionististc except for claiming korea and during the 20th century....

Agr/Mil seems the best fit...but even that i'm not comfortable with.

Agri/Ind...japanese were among the more open of the eastern nations...i just can't seem commerce though....................

[Jamski]

Well, Byzantine have to have religious as a trait. Probably the biggest dominant factor of the Byzantine Empire was the Orthodox church. What's this suggestion of "Agri/Com" ? Rubbish!
Religious/Com or Rel/Seafaring. (Consider the UU is a BOAT)

-Jam

[Louis XXIV]

I think Rel, Com or Sci, Com fits Byzantine really well. But I need traits for India and Korea.

I think Spain is a good Rel, Sea

I don't think they are Agr, Com but I ran out of places to put them

I don't think Japan is agricultural. I always thought they depended more on fishing than on farming

[Lord God Jinnai]

Now that i think about it...i think Agri should be dropped entirely for Japan...they really weren't ever known for being an agricultural nation in any reguard....more fishing...

I'd say Rel/Ind is best...the current model Rel/Mil isn't good because they never were much of a militaristic nation except during Meiji Restoration, and only then starting about the time of WWI...less than 1/8 of the game turns...

Also China should not be military...never were they militaristc nation...even today i'd say they really weren't militaristic any more than any other nation of their size and power would mandate...

Industious....its debatable....China has had a long history of wanting constant rather than change...far longer than Mao's vision of an industrious china...sure chage does come, but chinese nation is slow to bring change until its required.

Agri/Rel is imo best for china...chinese emperors were always broken when their agriculture...and the Chinese way of life has always been rooted in religious and philosophical tenats.

[Mad Bomber]

When CIV 3 came out I started to experiment with each Civ having 3 traits, but with each CIV having half of the available traits I gave it up as not being practical. With the two new traits I will have to revisit this idea as I am not satisfied with CIV's limited to two traits.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Mad Bomber
When CIV 3 came out I started to experiment with each Civ having 3 traits, but with each CIV having half of the available traits I gave it up as not being practical. With the two new traits I will have to revisit this idea as I am not satisfied with CIV's limited to two traits.

hi ,

with 31 civs in the game , three traits does change a lot , .....

it leads to better gameplay , .......


you can also let some civs start with certain free techs , .....

since you can do this for each era , this leads also to a better game , ......

have a nice day

[Killazer]

China should definately keep its militaristic stat. Ever heard of Romance of the Three Kingdoms period? China has been at war in one form or another for virtually its entire existance like 3000 years rofl.

[sabrewolf]

What will be the benefits for the Agriculture & Seafaring traits?
Agricultural recieves a bonus food in its City square.
and Agr gets extra food on irrigated desert
Seafaring ships increase movement by 1
agricultural also gets cheaper aqueducts, recycling plants and solar plants.
Does seafaring always start near the coast as well? Didn't remember if that stayed in.
And if the Agr city tile is next to water the despotism penalty doesn't apply to its food
Searfaring locations is "usually" on the coast, but not always, a much increased chance
Seafaring also get decreased sinking chance, and city built along the coast receives a commerce bonus in the center city square
Also cheaper docks and harbors
cheap harbors... mmmmm =)

(source: CFC - chat, edited version)

imho argicultural sounds like an extremely powerful trait, somewhere in the region of industrial.
- no despotism penalty if city is near water, makes cities destined for rexing. the only disadvantage is that OCP or similar concepts might be broken (until now the only disadvantage was that the aqueduct had to be built)
- a bad start on a dry map (desert) is like starting with loads of plains (2f, 1s)
- cheaper aqueducts

seafaring seems good and can be great for human players on coastal maps (more successful suicing galleys)

your impressions?

[Du_Chateau]

Some traits I think should be but do not know.:

Americans: Com/Ind
English: Sea/Exp
French: Arg/?
Japan: Rel/?
China: Arg/Sci.

[joncnunn]

I'm thinking the America will almost certinately be Agricultural/Industrial.

We're #1 in food produced. And look at all those late industrial and mordern ear wonders in the game that America actually built.

I think we'll also keep the F 15 UU, if nothing else, switching to an earlier UU is likely to make America way too powerful.

Yes, Seafaring + Expansionist seems to decribe Victorian era England very well.

I think France is most likely to remain Commercial + Industrial.

I think Religious + Seafaring would fit Japan well.

On China, I see it most likely remaining Military + Industrial.

[Stuie]

Originally posted by Sheik

quote:

I won't tell you how many you got right or wrong but one hint... Sumeria aren't expansionist

I assume you are testing Conquests?

Merepatra works for BreakAway Games. Apolyton really should give her a special label or something... it's great having her come visit now and then.

[Tiberius]

Originally posted by joncnunn
I'm thinking the America will almost certinately be Agricultural/Industrial.

We're #1 in food produced. And look at all those late industrial and mordern ear wonders in the game that America actually built.

I think we'll also keep the F 15 UU, if nothing else, switching to an earlier UU is likely to make America way too powerful.

Yes, Seafaring + Expansionist seems to decribe Victorian era England very well.

I think France is most likely to remain Commercial + Industrial.

I think Religious + Seafaring would fit Japan well.

On China, I see it most likely remaining Military + Industrial.

Why would the japanese be seafaring? When were they good at it? They were barely able to sail until China or Korea, and they never felt comfortable on sea. The samurais were fierce warriors on the land, not on the sea.

Mil+Rel just fits them so well. The whole feudal era (which I consider the golden era for Japan) was based on military classes, Samurais and Daimyos and their bushido code.

Otherwise I agree with your choices, maybe with a few exceptions:
- the French; but honestly I wouldn't know what traits to give to the french.
- the English: I'd think Seafaring + Commercial would fit the better (but seaf+exp makes sense, too)

China will most likely remain mil+ind, to allow for the Great Wall to trigger their GA.

[joncnunn]

On Japan and seafaring, I was mostly thinking about Pearl Harbor, and how powerful the Japense fleet in the Western Pacific was from 1938 to mid 1942.

And the combo of Military + Religious is currently overrepresented.

On the Wonders, I imagine the Great Wall's traights won't change, but I wouldn't be surprized if some of the others did, particlary Pyramids, Great Light House, and Magellan's.

On France, the main reason I think they'll stay Commerical & Industrious is that it's their traights in original civ. (Commerical & Seafaring describes Holland at it's peak much better than France & England.)