New XP announced

[Odin]

I wonder what the UUs will be for the new civs? My guesses.

Inca: Sun Warrior (inproved Swordsman) 3.2.2

Maya: Plumed Archer (improved Longbowman) 4.1.2

Byzantines: Cataphract (improved Horsman) 3.2.2 +20 production cost

Hebrews: Slinger (improved Archer) 3.1.1

any Ideas for other civs?

[Azeem]

For the Mayans, based on the graphics released, it is most likely that the UU would be a javelin thrower because Mayans did not have very good archers. It was very strange that the Mayans had a plumed archer as their UU in Age of Empires. Their javelineers and atl-atl slings were much more superior.

[Louis XXIV]

Originally posted by Odin
I wonder what the UUs will be for the new civs? My guesses.

Inca: Sun Warrior (inproved Swordsman) 3.2.2

They have a picture of an Incan Scout

Maya: Plumed Archer (improved Longbowman) 4.1.2

They have a picture of a Javeliner

Byzantines: Cataphract (improved Horsman) 3.2.2 +20 production cost

Too similar to Celtic Swordsman.

Byzantine may not be in the game

Hebrews: Slinger (improved Archer) 3.1.1

Its likely that the Mayans will have this for their Archer

any Ideas for other civs?

Sumerians will have an Endiku Warrior, a fictional unit because Firaxis couldn't think of anything better. My guess is it is 2.1.1 Warrior

I have no idea about the Hittites

[Odin]

Originally posted by Louis XXIV
I have no idea about the Hittites

Well, they were the first to use chariots in Battle, i'm thinking of a 1.1.3 chariot.

[Dom Pedro II]

This new expansion bugs me to some degree...

Personally, I think Firaxis has shown that it doesn't have the right stuff. Of course, it's not as bad as Activision and their little disaster, Call to Power, but it's still bad.

I like Civ 3. Don't get me wrong. I would rather play it than Civ 2, but I think it was far from what we hoped it would be. I remember a year before Civilization came out, suggestions were streaming in every day here at the forums. The game designers were talking one-on-one with the fans, and it seemed like they were really listening to us.

Now, some people had some far out ideas, but for the most part, the people generally wanted to see the same things.

* Improved scenario-editing ability, events scripting.
* More complex diplomacy (meaning like the diplomacy screen)
* Improved graphics
* Better economy (resources and such)

And there were certain things, like Multiplayer, that Civ 2 featured that it was assumed would be included.

And they did make some progress.... the Civ III editor opened up a lot of stuff to the people that in Civ 2 was untouchable with regards to buildings and units.

The graphics were definitely better.

And the diplomacy options were better. We got to declare war when we wanted to. Cities could be traded. There was a lot more flexibility with regards to diplomacy and trading...

and there was resources.

But it didn't go nearly far enough. The game, for the most part, seemed almost left incomplete. Hell, there are graphics in Civ 3 for units that aren't even there. There was ruins graphics before the ruins in PtW were even available. It looked more like a beta test than the real game.

Perhaps the two biggest hits: no scenario-editing abilities, and no multiplayer! How could they not have included these things? They knew we wanted to see them in the game!

Why were they left out? I've heard people argue "Well, they shouldn't listen to the demands of the consumers. They were making the game they wanted."

We're not talking about dramatic differences... they could still make the game the way they wanted to and give us what we wanted. Events scripting, scenario abilities, and more modding options could only expand the possibilities, not constrict them... and multiplayer is a must!

It was almost like they had gone back to the original Civ2, which didn't have any of these options, and were going through all of the same mile stones... why? It makes no sense.

Then there was Play the World, which was in many ways just tinsel. The fundamental changes that were needed were ignored so that they could focus on decoration: new civs, new units, new improvements. The scenario editor, true, was somewhat better, and the multiplayer, as many of us know, was a joke!

Again, it let it seem like they'd just stopped whatever it was they were doing and said "OK, let's sell this!" I mean, they included the new animations for Medieval Japan and World War II (some of which were nice) and they couldn't even make pedia icons for them... shameful!

I remember when the programmers would come and talk in the chats about what they were doing with the expansion pack. Most of the conversation was about what WASN'T going to be included, not what was... We were left guessing at what civs and features could be expecting. Interaction between the fans and the programmers dried up. It wasn't a dialogue anymore, they were dictating the terms of the expansion pack to us.

And now there's this new expansion pack coming out... that promises natural disasters. Fine. Natural disasters sound cool, but why are they working on such cosmetic things when they haven't even addressed the old problems? It's very troubling to me... as has been said before, they have the oppurtunity to redeem themselves, but I don't see any sign that this is going to happen. It's like they're bleeding us, stretching this out as long as they can to maximize profits... I don't know if this is the intention, but it is certainly the result. An expansion pack is supposed to be a continuation, an augmentation, but these are almost like corrections, apologies.

I'll have to think long and hard about whether I'm going to buy this expansion. If they make some effort to turn things around and it shows, then I'll buy it. If on the other hand its just a bunch of cosmetic changes that modders could do on their own, then forget it!

[Spiffor]

Dom Pedro :

Civ3 had a bad omen from the beginning on, as it had to be rushed despite half of the team left. Expansions look like apologies of the original release, with its many lackings, true. But I think PtW has adressed many of them (especially now that it nears being bug-free), and the biggest problem Firaxis will have to correct in Conquests will be the scenario/events editor, the turn-replay in multiplayer games, and unit-trading .

I think Civ3 will be a complete product with Conquests, and future expansions (if they exist) will indeed expand the game. Howver, I don't hold my breath, as I assume the next step in fall 2004 is the release of a gold edition with Civ3 + expansions + all patches + a "best of net" CD.

[WarpStorm]

DP2, part of the problem Firaxis had on Civ3 was the fact that most of their Civ3 development team quit to form a new company halfway through the development. Firaxis had to hire a bunch of new people to pick up the pieces. They still had a schedule to make if they wanted to be paid by Infogrames.

The other thing to be aware of is the fact that Firaxis is not in total control of the Civ line. Atari is. They pretty much own all the rights to it. If Atari 'suggests' that a certain feature should be deferred to a later expansion, it most likely will. Firaxis is under the time, money, and (hopefully, to a lesser extent) creative constraints given from their publishers.

Will this expansion be everything that everyone wants? Of course not, how could it be? A feature that I think would be wonderful, you may hate. Will I be happy with it and think it'll be worth the price when it comes out (probably be able to pick it up for $20 at Best Buy within 2 weeks of release)? Most likely.

BTW, Ritual Sacrifice is a cool feature

[Odin]

Firaxis was trying to make a good game, but Infrogreed goes $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and gives Firaxis the finger.

[Falco]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Dom Pedro :

Civ3 had a bad omen from the beginning on, as it had to be rushed despite half of the team left. Expansions look like apologies of the original release, with its many lackings, true. But I think PtW has adressed many of them (especially now that it nears being bug-free),

In whose universe is PTW "bug-free"?

Not outside USA.

I feel really sorry for them, fancy having all our money for that long and still having to work on fixing the bugs.

[WarpStorm]

The_Falco, it could be worse. They could have your money and not be working on fixing bugs.

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Dom Pedro :

But I think PtW has adressed many of them (especially now that it nears being bug-free),

Bug free

see links in sig below

[Panag]

Originally posted by Louis XXIV
They did mention something about "tear down walls" with the Trebuchet (or something like that)

But I think that was just done to sound cool

hi ,

when going over files in ptw , trebuchet is allready inthere , ...... the name is , .....

have a nice day

[statusperfect]

Originally posted by panag


hi ,

when going over files in ptw , trebuchet is allready inthere , ...... the name is , .....

have a nice day

what?


cheer

[Louis XXIV]

I think he said the name is listed in the files.

SpencerH, why don't you give your game to me?

[History Guy]

Odin,

The Hittites used chariots, yes, but they didn't have horses. They used small donkeys, one to a chariot, to drive a single-man chariot. Maybe it is a chariot without resources?