New "Ancient Empires" PBEM created

[Kull]

Re: Re: Re: Re: home rules

Originally posted by SlowThinker

Yes, people was doing that, and I noticed Egypt maybe missed one wonder because of that.

Wonderful

It is humorous several times you talked disparagingly about my list of rules.

Because it never occurred to me that anybody could POSSIBLY interpret that a serial, "one-player-moves-at-a-time" game would somehow morph into some bastardized version of multiplayer. For the record, PBEM is NOT multiplayer!!! From the very beginning I have HATED and opposed the idea of using the MP feature instead of CivDip, and only aquiesced because I was assured that it was "just a way to do CivDip things faster". Now it turns out that god only knows how many pseudo cheats and scams have been perpetrated during those sessions.

I am so pissed off that I can barely type!

This multiplayer bull**** has to stop. It's time to use CivDip and CivDip only, and if that's inconvenient, too f***ing bad.

[SlowThinker]

From the very beginning you played with three rules only (and MP was allowed) until I came and suggested to use adjusted rah's rules.

Yes, things that never occured to one player are very natural for another one. This is exactly the reason why rules are established in Civ2 games.

BTW I proposed a change of that rule twice. Only reaction was a Straybow's one after my second try.

[atawa]

So now just let us agree that you can only manage your civ on your own turn.

[atawa]

@Slowthinker the player:

To be honest I couldnt be bothered to read through 3000+ posts but find this endless debating about a few tiles of land a bit boring to be honest.

What I would like to do is set up borders witch offer both Babylonian and Persian security so we can continue the game and I can get into it. Taking over a civ this size takes some work allready and I wouldnt like to fight an allout war on my first turns.
Btw, dont confuse wouldnt and couldnt here becouse Persia has enough power atm to ruin both our civs and if needed can get GW in a couple of turns.

The pre-war Bab-Per border I can live with:

[IMG][/IMG]

But the northern border is somewhat crooked, I used your map and drew new lines. This border still gives you the bulk of Asyrian lands.
The 3 tiles in the white tile and the white dot will be manned by Hittite and Minoan troops.

[IMG][/IMG]

@ Consul Slowthinker:

Here is our last proposal, I think you'll find it fair and balanced, it provides both Babylonian and Persian security. We propose that Hittite and Minoan troops guard the neutral zones.

I hope you can except this offer as it will bring peace and prosperity to both our nations. If not then may the gods help us all, as there will be few left when the dust clears.

[SlowThinker]

atawa, I passed your letter to The Immortal. He is the ruler of Babylon.
ST tP

atawa I,
first: I am not a dumb consul, I am King, stop your insults or Bab armies will explain you the difference!

---

For your information: the second map has almost nothing common with the Pers-Bab borders. This is an old Pers-Assyrian border, and Babylon states she honors all Persian pre-war lands (the yellow line).

It is good to hear Persia honors the old eastern borders between Persia and Babylon.

Here is our last proposal, I think you'll find it fair and balanced, it provides both Babylonian and Persian security.

I don't think it is very beneficial if Persia sends a 2nd proposal, that is very similar to the 1st one, which was refused by Babylon already. Do you really think
Bab+Persian security = Persia gets all 7 defensive squares of Al-Kabir + Babylon gets none of them ?
If the proposal is 'last' then there is nothing I can say about.

Otherwise hear the Babylonian stance:
Persians should perceive that they can hardly expect eternal friendship between our nations if they insist Babylon stays with a very limited security, incomparably worse than the Persian one.
Look at a 'fair map' that I posted here and compare:

Persia has almost hermetic borders: from west to east:
* upper Al Kabir ends 3 squares from Tushpa, so even if Babylon conquered all the river she cannot continue further
* the Lake Urmia (at Kyrousata) is fully owned by Persia, so an attacker would have to face undestructible units on boats
* there is no river that would go north from the Zagros. The terrain is slow and so Babylonian army could not attack/advance and build forts in the same turn. Without forts intruders would be easy targets for Persians (compare the strength of attackers with the strength of defenders on hills/forests).

For Babylon rivers are an Achilles heel. A Persian army could advance and simultaneously hide in forts. If the Persian army is large enough it is unstoppable.
Therefore Babylon would still have less security with the 'fair map'. But I can believe it would be good enough.

If you don't accept the 'fair map', we can talk more and postpone the final agreement. I propose until the agreement we return back to the situation of 2490. (Persian armies started to advance south only after 2490. Situation was stable and calm until that date.

The Immortal

[atawa]

Dear King Imortal,

We agree on your proposal to move back to the borders of 2490 as this is pretty much what we ourselves propose.

atawa

PS: There is no need to insult our friends the Hittites.

[Straybow]

Babylon is upset that Hatte pressed them to relinquish claims in the face of Persian intransigence under Sinbad.

A new dynasty opens new opportunities for compromise, which is good.

[SlowThinker]

atawa I,

but in order to avoid further confusion: I meant "the situation" of 2490: you see there are no stacked units, only weak scouts, no forts, and the quiet belt of land is 3-4 squares wide.

The Immo


"The Consul" was a joke of course.
ST tP

[atawa]

Immo,

We agree with this proposal, our units will return as they were and the forts will be demolished. We trust our neighbours will act likewise.
unfortunately we were too late to stop the discovery of Legions III, but we'll research this path no further. Persia wants peace and prosparity, for our neighbours and distant friends, and also for ourselves .

atawa

OT/ Can someone send me this program I need or have a link where I can download it?

[SlowThinker]

Do you mean CivDip? It is linked from GL (follow my signature)

[SlowThinker]

Originally posted by atawa I
We agree on your proposal to move back to the borders of 2490

One more specification:
Situation of 2490 doesn't conform to any existing borders. Until 2490 we had a verbal dispute about borders, but units stayed quietly and unstacked on their positions.
Babylon can continue in that coexistence quietly, but she prefers to agree on definitive borders and to build a normal friendly relationship with Persia.

We agree with this proposal, our units will return as they were and the forts will be demolished. We trust our neighbours will act likewise.

Babylon confirms our units will return to position of 2490.

[Zedd]

Minoa Has a proposal.

This has been dispatched to Babylon already, but our Messenger to Persia was attacked by a monster known as "For-Ohfor".

Lines indicate boarders, Squares possible troop placement as boarder patrol, and the Red are a neutral area that could be patroled by Minoa troops. (or hittite if they are agreeable.)

I have one response from Babylon, Please Kings send me any comments.

[Straybow]

The Hatte wish to remain neutral in this conflict, and our units will not patrol or guard the Zagros or Zab al Kabir. Should mediation fail no Persian or Babylonian soldiers shall be permitted through Hatte territory.

[atawa]

Persia accepts this proposal on the following conditions:

1, Persia wants functional ownership of the forrests + Hill on the northwest edge so it can use its resources for its growth.

2, Folowing that red line further NW beyond the above posted map, that row of tiles will be under Persian controll.

3, We follow the SE line, the border between our civs, at the point where it ends, due east as a permanent border between Persia and Babylon.

4, We would like to request some Minoan wine for the peace celebrations

[SlowThinker]

Babylonian reservations were sent by e-runners already, also to Persia.
We don't understand the Persian reservations 1-3, maybe some coordinates would help.