New "Ancient Empires" PBEM created

[Straybow]

So are Minoan units actually going to patrol 6 or 7 tiles south of the river? This large area will require more units to patrol. In the interests of peace and continued free trade, a weak Hatte unit can be commissioned and secunded for this work.

[Zedd]

Pharoh,
Would you agree to this addition:

1) The Hatched Red Zone is reserved for use by the designated Minoan patrol troops.

2) Babylonian and Egyptian forces found within this zone are subject to immediate destruction.

3) If both Babylon and Egypt agree, other nations may send their units through this zone following a designated path.

[edit]4) No units with more than 3 moves will end thier turn within 2 spaces of the Red Zone.

5) No new cities will be built within 2 spaces of the Red Zone[/edit]

This would prevent a C4 (for example) from moving Through the Red zone into Babylon without stopping. I didn't add this to the latest map due to time constraints.


StrayBow, Thank you for the assist. I would prefer Hatta had a patrol for the northern area that is marked, being that it is allmost entirely within Hatta. Also I have 2 C2 near antioch that I would move to Dibshiya to help as well as use the units provided by Babylon and Egypt.

[SlowThinker]

Babylonians thank both Kings for their effort.

Objections to the Minoan propositions of rules:
* I am afraid of envoys: theoretically they could bribe the Minoan C4s and use them. And there is no good reason why to have envoys in rose zone.
* Violation of rules in points 4 and 5 is not subject of immediate destruction. What does Lycastus intend to do if one side will pile 2 C4s just besides the red zone?
* How do you want to check stacked units of 'speed<=3'?
* With roads in zones units will easily get to the other side. How do you want to prevent it?
* Boats: Egyptian and Babylonian boats could help an invader to bypass zones (a unit can move 4+4 squares with a help of a boat). Therefore I propose the Minoan boats are stationed besides the red zone (see the picture)

Egypt claims his aim constitutes neither greed for land nor a desire to move his forces near Babylonian cities. So I see no reason why Pharaoh wouldn't agree with solid zones and good rules. I am sure he will welcome them.

But there is another point to solve, so far it seems Pharaoh may want peace around Dibshiya and Tell Hariri but wants war in the desert:
Babylon asks Pharaoh sends his proposition how to ensure peace in the desert and safety of adjacent cities.

[SlowThinker]

It would be good to reach an agreement before the Babylonian and Egyptian turns (maybe Hittites could be allowed to postpone their turn?). Therefore again I ask Pharaoh that he writes something concrete.
In other words: explanations like Egypt is afraid of sandstorm of words are not very constructive. For example if Pharaoh doesn't like the idea envoys should be forbidden in the rose zone then he is asked to explain why he needs envoys there and how he wants to prevent they bribe Minoan C4s.

[Kull]

Originally posted by SlowThinker
It would be good to reach an agreement before the Babylonian and Egyptian turns (maybe Hittites could be allowed to postpone their turn?).

No extension granted. It's not needed unless Babylon has plans for attacking Egypt. We have no offensive intentions and thus don't need "more time".

Therefore again I ask Pharaoh that he writes something concrete. In other words: explanations like Egypt is afraid of sandstorm of words are not very constructive.

Let's see. We said we would agree to the map. That's concrete. We said there were only three other points necessary to ensure safety. That is also concrete. Anything more is a "sandstorm of words". And Pharoah thanks his oblivious brother for providing a perfect example:

For example if Pharaoh doesn't like the idea envoys should be forbidden in the rose zone then he is asked to explain why he needs envoys there and how he wants to prevent they bribe Minoan C4s.

Could anything be more laughable? We are going to give/loan a C4 to Minos and then BRIBE it back!?!?! And Babylon seeks "assurances" that Egypt will not do something so obviously and blatantly stupid?? We stand amazed.

Since the whole purpose of the zone is to provide a neutral safety zone between Egypt and Babylon, Pharoah sees no need for "Rose Zones" of dubious merit and impossible enforcement. Likewise, providing C4s to Minos is not necessary. They simply need cheap patrol units who can explore the zone and ensure that it's not compromised by the other side. Any nation that sends it's units across this zone will receive the treatment it deserves from the Alliance. No further enforcement is necessary or desirable.

As to the southern desert, an exclusion zone of 4-5 squares from each others cities is all that's required. Unless one is a paranoid megalomaniac.

[SlowThinker]

Let us say Egypt wants safety and is afraid of an attack from Babylon. I would expect Egypt would accept even a 'blatantly stupid' rule unless she needs envoys in the rose zone for something very important.

[SlowThinker]

Spy arrived

We were always confused that Pharaoh was so afraid of Babylon and simultaneously he used so many harsh words, as though he would be trying to sharpn the Egy-Bab relatioship...

Our spy from Memphis arrived only now, as he spent four days in The National Brothel of Ur:

Memphis builds Sargon's arsenal!

Egypt, that possesses several barracks and has the ability to build C4c, builds Sargon in order to 'defend' against a nation with ability to build neither barracks nor C4s!

Everything is clear now. Egypt always aimed for war.
Pharaoh never wanted to accept the Minoan proposal and let Minoan artists to work in vain:
First he persisted on the original shape of the zone and hoped Babylon would refuse the unfair zones. But after Babylon showed she would accept any shape of zones Egypt started to try to make zones ineffective ... and simultaneously she tried to reject any securety measures of cities near The Desert...

[Straybow]

No extension needed. I was waiting to hear from kengel, but it is not critical.

Hatte merchants are happy to see progress on the Euphrates Peace.

[Kull]

Originally posted by SlowThinker
Let us say Egypt wants safety and is afraid of an attack from Babylon. I would expect Egypt would accept even a 'blatantly stupid' rule unless she needs envoys in the rose zone for something very important.

As always, the stench of deceit is carried in with the winds from the southeast. We shall not be bound by thy endless pages of terms and conditions that guarantee nothing. We seek only to sever all ties with Babylon. We welcome the Minoans, and desire only a plan which is simple and understandable even to a child in the marketplace.

Mark Pharoah's words, my Allies. These all the guarantee any of thee shall ever need:

The forces of Egypt shall not be the first to strike against Babylon!

We prepare for Babylon's assault and urge you to rush to our defense. Otherwise we may be the first to fall, but assuredly we won't be the last.

[Kull]

Re: Spy arrived

Originally posted by SlowThinker
Memphis builds Sargon's arsenal!

Why this is most interesting. Perhaps the Serpent of the South would be willing to share with us his method for acquiring this information. As there isn't a Spy within reach of any Egyptian city, I'm sure we would all love to hear the method by which it was obtained. Pharoah has his suspicions.

[SlowThinker]

Again a heap of ambiguous and empty words from Egypt.
Is Pharaoh able to answer yet very simple questions?

Why Egypt needs envoys and 4-speed units in the rose zone?

What Egyptian units seek in desert 5-6 tiles from Babylonian cities?

What Egypt needs the Sargon for??

[Kull]

I smell the stench of cheating. Have a nice game.

[Peaster]

Pharaoh: I guess ST could have discovered your Sargon plans without cheating.

[SlowThinker]

Originally posted by Pharaoh
Why this is most interesting. Perhaps the Serpent of the South would be willing to share with us his method for acquiring this information. As there isn't a Spy within reach of any Egyptian city, I'm sure we would all love to hear the method by which it was obtained. Pharoah has his suspicions.

Great Paranoid Emperor and Great Liar of the South,
Only so blatantly stupid person as you could think Babylon would reveal her spies in Egypt.
Maybe my oblivious laughable brother should keep a better watch of Egypt?
Maybe Babylonian soothsayers just divined what happens in Memphis?
Maybe Babylon knew Egypt builds Sargon and The Immortal guessed the city?
It's hard to judge, unless one is a paranoid megalomaniac like Pharaoh.

(Please excuse me for my vocabulary, recently I have studied Pharaoh's messages very extensively.)

Edit: Grammar and bold name

[SlowThinker]

Originally posted by Kull
I smell the stench of cheating. Have a nice game.

What happened? Did you open Babylonian saves again? I thought we straightened it out last time. Darius is not here now, but I expect SparrowHawk or RobRoy are ready to serve if needed.
I will wait now, but I am not sure if I will be able to play Thu and/or Fri. So I should play tomorrow or I need a time extension.